Episode 257: The Paradox of Aid and Conflict in Gaza with Assem Dandashly
Coordinated and Produced by Elisa Garbil
A difficult topic, one that we keep seemingly talking about without our governments doing anything – The ongoing genocide in Gaza.
Dominic and Assem Dandashly discuss the paradox of aid and conflict, the reality on the ground in Gaza, the Western (and international) hypocrisy and what the inevitable consequences are of this hypocrisy, the role of Western democracies, the full erosion of International Law and Human Rights, and more…
Assem Dandashly is an Associate Professor at the Department of Political Science at Maastricht University. He is an expert on the EU-MENA relations. Prior to joining Maastricht University in September 2012, Assem was a Research Fellow at the Kolleg-Forschergruppe “The Transformative Power of Europe” Freie Universität Berlin. Assem holds a PhD in Political Science (2012) from the University of Victoria, BC Canada.
Prior to moving to Berlin, Assem was a Research Associate at the Centre for Competition policy at the University of East Anglia. He was also a research assistant and sessional instructor at the University of Victoria. In 2008-2009, Assem was a visiting researcher at the Economic University of Krakow in Poland and the Central European University in Budapest. Before moving to Victoria, Assem was a Fulbright Graduate Student at Marquette University, Wisconsin-USA.
The International Risk Podcast is a weekly podcast for senior executives, board members, and risk advisors. In these podcasts, we speak with experts in a variety of fields to explore international relations. Our host is Dominic Bowen, Head of Strategic Advisory at one of Europe’s leading risk consulting firms. Dominic is a regular public and corporate event speaker, and visiting lecturer at several universities. Having spent the last 20 years successfully establishing large and complex operations in the world’s highest-risk areas and conflict zones, Dominic now joins you to speak with exciting guests around the world to discuss international risk.
The International Risk Podcast – Reducing risk by increasing knowledge.
Follow us on LinkedIn and Subscribe for all our great updates!
Transcript:
Assem Dandashly: [00:00:00] being the killer and at the same time, the one who’s going to distribute aid, how does this work? Because they are killing the Palestinians and at the same time are going to give them food.
Elisa Garbil: Welcome back to the International Risk Podcast, where we discuss the latest world news and significant events that impact businesses and organizations worldwide.
Dominic Bowen: Hi, I’m Dominic Bowen and I’m the host of the International Risk Podcast. Today’s episode is not for the faint hearted, but then again, neither is reality. Today we’re talking about Gaza, and not just the violence, and not just the headlines, the systemic collapse of international law and what that means for the future for you.
And for me, my guest today is Dr. Assem Dandashly. He’s an associate professor at Master University he’s one of the sharpest analysts of the European Union Middle East relations, working today. His work examines not just diplomacy, but the power structures, the hypocrisies blind spots that define global politics.
He’s been a Fulbright Scholar, a [00:01:00] researcher at some of Europe’s most respected institutions, And today he brings something much more important than just credential. He brings clarity here’s the hard truth. What’s happening today in Gaza is not just a humanitarian catastrophe, it’s a legal turning point.
It’s a precedent and. Potentially an indication of more to come when hospitals are bombed, when water is cut off, when children are buried under rubble, when millions of people are deliberately starved, and the global system just shrugs. We’re not just witnessing war crimes, witnessing a precedent.
We are witnessing. A normalization of atrocity and for business leaders, for diplomats, and for anyone who still believes that law should mean something. This is your wake up call. There’s a wake up call about the operating environment, where we live, we travel, and where we do our business.
Dr. Hashem, welcome to the international podcast.
Assem Dandashly: Thank you. My pleasure and my honor to be, hosted by you. So thanks for inviting me.
Dominic Bowen: Well, this is a really important topic, so let’s jump straight in. Legal [00:02:00] scholars, United Nations experts and even the International Court of Justice, has referenced the plausibility of genocide in Palestine, recently two respected Israeli human rights organizations, including Physicians for Human Rights, Israel, have begun using the term genocide.
And last week on primetime TV in Israel, a popular TV news anchor looked up from his notes and he said, maybe it’s finally time to acknowledge that this isn’t a public relations failure. It’s a moral failure. Dr. Assem with With tens of thousands of civilians dead, over 80% of Gaza’s population display infrastructure completely obliterated.
It’s time to ask plainly, does this meet the legal definition for genocide under the 1948 Genocide Convention?
Assem Dandashly: now calling it a genocide, has been debated, uh, over the past almost two years as we can, hear from various legal experts, et cetera. And I think we’re focusing a lot on the term. But reality is still tens of thousands innocent children, [00:03:00] women, are being killed. For no reason, just for being in Gaza, infants, total destruction.
So even if it is not the genocide, it’s something that in the 21st C century, we shouldn’t accept that this is happening. We said this before, never again after the Holocaust. Then we had the Rwanda, genocide. We had, in former Yugoslavia, we said Never again. Never again. And we history repeat itself.
And it seems that we never learned the, the lesson. Now, if it is a genocide or not, I think the intention, even just talking about the intentions when after October 7th happened, that these are human animals. We are going to, starve them. We’re going to, Eliminate any access to, food, water, et cetera.
So even just, just looking at the intention of the, like, uh, the, the, what the Minister of Former Minister of Defense said, and the, uh, Israeli administration have said, is enough show that the intention was. it is partially or fully eliminate Gaza from the map. And what we are seeing now, with the full support [00:04:00] of the, Trump administration is, they are starving Gaza, shooting at people who are rushing to get just the basics of food.
destroying gas are totally making it. Inhabitable impossible to live there. And now, like what we heard today from, some Israeli officials is that if Hamas is not going to accept our conditions, we’re going to basically annex Gaza. Which goes against all the international, all the Oslo agreements, all the two state solution, and even what’s happening in the West Bank, we see that the probability of having a two state solution is slowly, slowly, becoming an impossible reality.
whether it is a genocide or not, I think just seeing what’s happening and no one is even bothered from the politicians. We see a lot of the public. Europeans, Westerners are saying Enough is enough. But we see also like, significant EU leaders, the United States and other, even questioning the starvation in Gaza, questioning if there’s a genocide.
many more do you want to see killed? How many more you want to see starved till [00:05:00] death? How many innocent children, civilians, women, elderly. You want to see dead? Before we call it genocide. It’s genocide also legally is not about comparing it to Rhonda, like hundreds of, it’s not about this, it’s just the thinking of eliminating or, partially or totally civilians and the people of Gaza.
The Palestinians in Gaza. This is alone is a war crime. The ICC has ruled that Netanyahu and others are war criminals. But unfortunately, if Gaza has shown us anything, it’s shown us the death international law, the death of international humanitarian law, the death of international morals, the death.
Of anything related to human rights and respect for human lives that the EU and the West has been preaching over the past decades about it.
Dominic Bowen: And the United Nations has released figures that as of, late July, over 1000 Palestinians have been killed whilst trying to access food at official aid. Distribution points. Along [00:06:00] convoy roots and this includes 766 civilians near sites run by the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which is a controversial body and 288 civilians near United Nations and and other convoys.
explains this targeting of civilians that are seeking food and water over a thousand killed since late May.
Assem Dandashly: Unfortunately, the more you see not only the Israeli atrocities in Gaza and the killing of innocent Taiwanese, but also the silence of the international community, the leaders of. The so-called free word, the modern, western, world.
When you see this silence they are basically complicit to this killing. And the aim is what Netanyahu has been saying over and over and over. don’t want a Palestinian state full stop. And if the people in Gaza are not going to, go away. We’re gonna starve them, we’re gonna kill them slowly.
So what’s happening is we keep discussing the what’s happening without trying to do significant efforts to stop what’s happening. And the killing continues slowly, [00:07:00] slowly. If this on ongoing, we’re seeing basically an elimination, is left from the 2.2, 2.3 million, in Gaza. So targeting these innocent civilians who are rushing to get aid.
what does it tell us? It’s just starve to death or come to take the minimal amount of food that we can allow, and the probability of being killed is very high. So in either ways, you don’t do anything, you’re going to starve to death. If you try to take food, the probability of being dead is very high.
Basically indirectly leave Gaza. Leave Palestine. And you can talk say that Hamas is in Gaza, but like, what about the West Bank, which is under the, the Palestinian Authority, which is basically a lie of the West. There’s no Hamas there. Why you keep also targeting civilians there and also accumulating more and more building illegal settlements.
So it is a sign that, unfortunately also like if it wasn’t for the Western support or the bulk of the, west supporting Israel, especially the United States in what is happening, and especially after the, [00:08:00] uh, with the Trump administration, wouldn’t see this continuing and if the United States was really keen on stopping this genocide.
They would have done it long time ago because if it wasn’t for the, open, line of, weapons and all the support that Israel is getting from the United States specifically and also other western countries, Israel could not last these two years almost, in Gaza.
Dominic Bowen: And I mentioned the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation earlier. Can you tell us, Assem, what is the real status of food, water, and medical aid distribution in Gaza today? And. Why are these daily tactical pauses still failing the population? And what are the structural and political reasons why aid corridors, pauses and airdrops are failing to meaningfully reduce starvation in Palestine?
know, we’re seeing delays in announcement, unpredictable side openings, militarized distribution, and outright targeting of civilians. What’s going on?
Assem Dandashly: the problem is very simple. what is happening is that [00:09:00] Israel wants to control how much food goes in or out. And there has been a lot of talks about the legality of this, organization and the United Nations organizations are not fully functioning on the ground. We will not see proper distribution of humanitarian aid and also food, water, and the basic needs.
The UN is not even allowed to practice its work, and we have heard over and over the past, especially in the last, months, they are not able to operate on the ground, and they have been very critical. Of any type of distribution because it’s not enough. We’re talking about over 2 million people and you’re, you are giving them very few places where the eight is distributed the slogans that we hear over and over ya, Hamas is stealing the eight.
Like we don’t even know where Hamas is. They are underground and the people are on top of the ground. So. Being, and this is something important, being the killer and at the same time, the one who’s going to distribute aid, how does this work? Because they are killing the Palestinians and at the same time are going to [00:10:00] give them food.
This is highly political and it’s just basically the way I see it and the way that when you talk to people around, like. Israel thinks by doing this, they are buying peace and stability and security in the region. Hell no. Unfortunately, even those who had thought that peace with Israel be a possibility, is on hold because also aid is used.
Coming back to the issue of, aid is used like whenever there’s high pressure on Israel that like you’re starving them, et cetera. You see that some, containers of food goes in and then half are taken by the, whoever is stealing it. of it is destroyed and some of it goes to the Palestinians.
But is this enough according to the United Nations and like, humanitarian aid experts, medical, stuff. Not even doesn’t cover 1% of the needs of Gaza,
Dominic Bowen: So why then is it taking the international community so long to condemn this genocide that’s occurring in Gaza? Why is the international community so silent?
Assem Dandashly: Unfortunately, my [00:11:00] answer will not be that nice, but. We don’t count as a human being as simple as that for the West. I’ve said it in many occasions as like a Muslim, as an Arab, as a non-European or a non-white person, what you hear on the streets, in the streets of Cairo, walking on the streets of Lebanon, Jordan, even in Europe where I live.
What you hear from non Westerners, we do not count as human beings who are worthy of these human rights. All these conventions on human rights, et cetera, that’s how people feel. When you treat, for example, just to give a small comparison, when you, when you treat the Ukrainian refugees or the people coming from Ukraine, you supported Ukrainians in every way you can.
condemned Russia has been doing, then when it comes to Israel, nothing happens. Like so. Ukrainians are more worthy than Palestinians. That’s how people feel. There is a mix. Now, the when you look at the European, especially the European countries, there is a mix because like we could see that, Ireland, Spain, Norway are more [00:12:00] pro, Palestine.
we look at like, the UK is changing stance at the moment, But very slowly. but it’s also the, uh, the guilt, the Holocaust because especially when we look at has been very, blunt supporter of, uh, Israel genocide in Gaza. And now you hear a few things here and there, but like on the ground, nothing is happening.
EU is so divided on the issue. you have, even countries within the EU who refused implement the ICC For example, such as Hungary, where Netanyahu was welcomed in validation of the ICC ruling. You hear from the Europeans or some westerns that this ICC was created to dictators and leaders in African countries or Asia or so, but not for, alloys.
and this gives you like this hypocrisy. of the international western community the hypocrisy of the European leaders, especially like high criticism, goes to the commission and the stance of the commission, especially all these, the speeches, all the, uh, position that, the president of the commission has taken over the past two years, which violates the basic principles that European Union [00:13:00] was based on.
Unfortunately, the public opinion in Europe, based on what I see, significant amount of the public opinion is pro human rights pro, that every life matters, the politicians are still living in the, post, Holocaust period. And the guilt is there, but like being, a victim of, the Holocaust doesn’t give you the right to become the victimizer.
And to create inflict the same, uh, harm on others.
Dominic Bowen: And so you mentioned Germany because the US House of Representatives, but also the German Bundestag, the German Parliament approved additional weapons exports. This month in July, 2025, despite warnings from the International Court of Justice, what responsibility do western democracies like Germany, like the USA, have under the Geneva Convention when they’re continuing to supply weapons and.
Political shield to Israel when it is conducting offensive operations against civilians in [00:14:00] Palestine. Do you think Western States can continue to supply weapons and arms and provide diplomatic coverage to Israel, or will this stop?
Assem Dandashly: Unfortunately with the, uh, with the Germans and the Trump administration, they don’t care about the Geneva Convention or the international law, and that’s what we see. Uh, international law seems to be subordinate to the politicians in both countries and especially the United States. And unfortunately, uh, that’s why like when you don’t respect international law.
And then when it comes to how do you want other countries to respect international law, what is the difference between Putin? Or Netanyahu when they both have an an arrest warrant like you Putin. Yeah, we’re going to arrested him. But like, uh, Netanyahu, no. Both are war criminals at the end of the day. But unfortunately, this is [00:15:00] what I mentioned earlier, like, and you mentioned it I think earlier, that it’s the death of international, uh, law.
Gaza has exposed all these countries. Has exposed the Western hypocrisy when it comes to democracy, human rights, uh, the lives of that, like any life matters that we always hear it. And this is not the case apparently.
Dominic Bowen: Well, Dr. Shim, just in the, in the last 30 seconds, I, I wonder when you, when you look around the world and when you look across the Middle East, what are the international risks that concern you the most?
Assem Dandashly: That, like, if ev, if someone is thinking that the GAA war will affect only the neighboring countries, they are so wrong. We are, what we are witnessing in Europe is very. Much polarized societies. The polarization of of societies, uh, the polarization of societies is increasing. Uh, [00:16:00] anti-Semitism is raising anti-Islam.
Islamophobia, like, uh, anti-Arab is increasing and this will not be healthy for Western democracies or anyone in the world when you walk on the street. Fearing for your, for yourself, like, because you look Arab or because you are, uh, wearing like, uh, specific religious clothes or so like, or you, you feel like, uh, threat, like you feel scared because you are Jewish or you are a Muslim or you are whatever.
This is not healthy for Western societies and we are witnessing. All the, the data shows there is an increase in Islamophobia antisemitism and also increased polarization of the societies, which will, will harm Western democracies further and further. And on the other hand, we see the, the other scary thing is the crack on, on, uh, freedoms that we are witnessing in many countries, such as in the us.
In Germany and others. And the third thing, [00:17:00] they crack down on academic freedom that we are witnessing in many universities, unfortunately. And this is something that goes against the basic principles of freedoms, human rights, civil liberties that we fought, that generations fought for it. And now we are seeing it like, uh, and now we see that we are slowly, slowly being deprived from this.
Uh, democratic, uh, benefits that we have enjoyed for such a long time.
Dominic Bowen: And Dr. Assem, I, I asked that question. What are your concerns about the international risks, or what are your biggest concerns to nearly every guest that comes on the podcast, and whether I’m speaking to environmentalists, uh, uh, financial experts, uh, stock market experts, um, spies, special forces, soldiers, uh, academics, you know, whatever the person I’m speaking to, they regularly give that.
Almost similar, almost identical answer to what you gave. You know, that concern about the erosion of the middle, the erosion of a [00:18:00] political middle class, an economic middle class, a social middle. Uh, it’s just that erosion. Uh, also the erosion of academic freedom, uh, increasing intolerance towards other races, other genders, other people.
The other, what do you think is causing this? Where is it coming from? Why is this such a prevalent international risk?
Assem Dandashly: Uh, unfor, unfortunately, the, uh, what, what what we are seeing is like, what, what we are seeing is, is risking everyone’s lives, is risking everyone, like, uh, because we always hear it about anti-Semite, um, anti-Semitism, et cetera. It was for the first time in my life. You feel sometimes that you are not welcome in Europe as like someone from color.
Also, this is risky for the international community because [00:19:00] now what prevent dictators or rogue leaders of violating international law? Nothing. If Israel, why Israel can’t violate international law and goes unpunished. Why the West is complicit to this and goes unpunished while like other countries should be punished.
Why we are moving slowly to like the rules of the jungle, unfortunately. And when we look at the EU and the, the, the, the, uh, the decades, the post-second World War, decades of, uh, promoting democracy. So when we look at the post-Second World War, uh, decades of promoting democracy, human rights, uh, all these freedoms, when we look at it now, how am I going to convince someone in the Middle East, in Africa, in North [00:20:00] Africa, in Asia about democracy?
We can’t, like, uh, I, I do work on democracy promotion, and now when I ask people, uh, or politicians in. The Middle East and North Africa, uh, about that. And they, they tell me like, EU democracy promotion or the US democracy, what are you talking about? And this is the scary part. And this will be risky for the entire, uh, uh, uh, continent.
Uh, this will be, uh, be dangerous for the entire world when you can commit. A genocide and go unpunished and being praised by international western leaders. What signal is this giving to the rest of the rogue nations states, sorry, wrong states, uh, dictators. [00:21:00] Uh, what, like why, why Putin should be punished if Netanyahu is not,
and unfortunately. We see this, the exposure of the Western hypocrisy when it came, when it comes to Gaza, and I think if there’s still some hope or human dignity in any of these Western politicians who still support Israel, I think it’s time for them just to pose a little bit and be honest with themselves and look at the, just the innocent civilians that are being dead in Gaza and everywhere.
Palestine that this should stop. And as you said, many Israeli, like you have, uh, many Israelis, uh, some Israeli associations, uh, uh, Palestinian Israeli Association, uh, are calling for that. This should [00:22:00] stop and I think it’s time for. It’s time for the western world and the leaders of the world to stop talking too much and to act on stopping Netanyahu from, uh, doing this.
Because what he’s doing is it’s not only causing harm, uh, to Gaza, it’s causing harm to, uh, the entire, uh, land there and also to the entire region and its side effects. We are witnessing it in various parts of the world.
Dominic Bowen: Yeah, it’s certainly a very complicated, uh, situation, but as you said, the, the shift in sentiment in Israel is notable. Um, and it’s, you know, perhaps a reflection of the, the continuation of, of, of bad news. I mean, Hamas, uh, still holds, um, Israeli hostages. Um, soldiers continue to die. Um, Israelis abroad, uh, are shunned, uh, diplomatically, uh, largely ostracized.
Um, [00:23:00] and daily. Daily. There are just new images of, of starving children and adults, um, in Palestine that are, that are being shown across the world. So it’s. Um, you know, concerning and, and you know, we see even us President Donald Trump, who’s a very strong defender of Israel, even weighing in, uh, this week, he said that he didn’t agree with, uh, prime Minister Benjamin Neu, and he said that there is starvation.
Uh, he said he sees it. He even said it’s not fake news. So I think that the, the pressure is mounting, the situation is catastrophic. Um, and I really appreciate you coming on the podcast today, Assem, to help us understand the situation and understand the international law that surrounds it.
Assem Dandashly: Thank you so much for having me. Uh, hopefully at another occasion the situation will be much, much better.
Dominic Bowen: Yes, yes.
Assem Dandashly: Thank you.
Dominic Bowen: Well, that was a great conversation with Dr. Assem Dandashly. He holds [00:24:00] a PhD in political science from the University of Victoria in Canada. He’s an associate professor at the Department of Political Science at Master University, and he is an expert on European Union and Middle East, north Africa relations.
I really appreciated hearing his thoughts on the situation in Palestine and in Israel. Please go to wherever you download your podcast and subscribe to this podcast so you can stay tuned with all our future podcasts. Today’s podcast was produced and coordinated by Garbill. I’m Dominic Bowen, your host.
Thanks very much for listening. We’ll speak again next week.
Elisa Garbil: Thank you for listening to this episode of the International Risk Podcast. For more episodes and articles, visit the international risk podcast.com. Follow us on LinkedIn, blue Sky, and Instagram for the latest updates, and to ask your questions to our host, Dominic Bowen. See you next time.
