Episode 408: The U.S. Midterms and Tennessee with Marquita Bradshaw

In this episode, Dominic discusses the US Midterms with Marquita Bradshaw, the Democratic nominee for the US Senate Elections on November 3rd. The conversation spans what challenges working people within the USA are currently facing, what change is necessary for Americans, and the dynamics within the political system today. 

It is clear there is a loss of faith. Marquita talks about her experiences engaging with voters, hearing their stories, and how this currently drives her priorities along her campaign trail. With rocketing fuel prices, concerned business owners, and a minimum wage that is flailing in the wake of climbing inflation, Marquita outlines how current injustices within the economy and prioritised status for certain interest groups is not serving the ordinary American. 

The discussion delves into how environmental justice applies to the political dynamics we are seeing today in America, and how domestic policy is crucial to fix in order to regain a stable USA internationally. Recounting her history as an environmental activist, her source of inspiration to fight for change, and the importance of community, Marquita’s focus is unapathetic and hopeful for shifting the tide in Congress. 

Transcript:

Dominic Bowen:
Today we’re turning our attention to the United States. The US midterm elections could symbolize a highly significant turning point in Donald Trump’s presidency. And this vote on the 3rd of November will determine which party has control of the Senate and the House of Representatives. And with that ability to reshape Congress, to make sure that public opinions are reflected directly onto the White House, as well as influencing President Trump’s agenda for the next two years, the result of these US midterm elections is not just crucial for the American public, but also for the international community.

I’m Dominic Bowen, and I’m host of the International Vist podcast, where we unpack the topics that really matter. And today we’re joined by Marquita Bradshaw. She’s the Tennessee Democratic nominee for the US Senate, and we’re really blessed to have her here today. And I’m looking forward to this conversation.

Marquita, welcome to the podcast.

Marquita Bradshaw:
Thank you so much for having me. I am so happy to be here today because there are 7.3 million Tennesseans that need us to get this right. And also, it’s people around the world that need us to get this right. The US Senate seat is so important. It decides who we are friends with, what wars we go to, where money goes to, and how it goes domestically and internationally. Tariffs and all these things have been really impacting everyday lives in a negative way under this administration.

And we have to really get us on the right path when it comes to energy and environment.

Dominic Bowen:
And I guess with less than 40 days before the election, you must be on the road. So whereabouts in beautiful Tennessee are you today?

Marquita Bradshaw:
We are in Middle Tennessee. We’re in Nashville, but we have been traveling to Rutherford County, Rowan County. Came from Shelby County, where I’m from, and there are like 95 counties across Tennessee. It’s faster to get to Canada or Texas before going from West Tennessee to the tip of East Tennessee.

Dominic Bowen:
Well, I didn’t know that, but I think all of our listeners will know Nashville and Tennessee. So fantastic. Thanks for explaining that. And I think, as you rightly said, despite the size of Tennessee, this conversation is about so much more than just Tennessee. And I would like to do a deep dive into Tennessee.

But first of all, I mean, looking at the massive political polarization in the US, and, you know, we’re seeing similar polarization. Sweden has just had their elections. And at the time of recording this, the government or the party that won the election has actually failed to form a government. So that’s going to create some challenges here.

So it’s not just unique to America, but I think we definitely see these huge political divides in America. You’ve got massive levels of economic uncertainty, whether it’s the bond yield, whether it’s the K-shaped economy, and there’s so many issues there, whether it’s the cost of healthcare in the United States. We’ve got this massive rapid technological change, of which the US is leading. We’ve got geopolitical competition. We saw President Trump and Xi Jinping’s meeting recently. We know we’ve got the Kushners and Steve Witkoff’s meeting with President Putin. And of course, there’s a declining trust in institutions right across the world, but especially in America. So what happens in America, I think, happens and really influences well beyond America’s borders.

So tell us, why do these upcoming midterm elections matter way beyond just the USA?

Marquita Bradshaw:
Right now, when we look across what’s happening not only in the US but across the world, we have billionaires and special interests that have hijacked our governments. And the regular everyday people are not being represented. And on a national level, here in Washington, DC, we have more interest about Elon’s Musk interests being represented in special interest, which is not what everyday Americans need. Elon Musk made a trillion dollars off of data centers in Memphis, Tennessee, where I’m from, and he poisoned Southwest Memphis, where all my family is from, at the same time.

And that’s the reason why it’s really important, because how data centers roll, the generative AI data centers roll out, is going to not only impact here in Memphis, Tennessee, and across Tennessee. It’s also going to impact the world. Right now, we need more energy and we need for it to be clean, and we need an economy that works for working people. And these austerity measures that have been put in place to benefit billionaires and trillionaires is not helping anybody in the US or around the world.

Dominic Bowen:
So let’s unpack that a little bit. When we’re talking about US voters, I’m really keen to understand. I’ve been really blessed. I’ve been able to spend some time on the East Coast of America, in Washington, DC. I’ve spent quite a lot of time on the West Coast up around Portland and Oregon, and, you know, absolutely beautiful communities, fantastic cities and great infrastructure in those two cities. But, you know, that’s just a small sample of what’s a huge country. So help us understand. What are voters worried about in the US right now? Where do the communities that you’re speaking with feel that the government is failing you?

And, you know, what is it when you speak to people outside of America? What are they misunderstanding? What don’t they understand about the level of economic and social pain and pressure that Americans are actually facing today?

Marquita Bradshaw:
Well, I was just speaking to a small business owner yesterday. Not only was she worried about how people are able to buy goods and services from her, she was also worried about whether or not her neighbor was going to be able to survive. He has parked his pickup truck that he uses for work because gasoline and diesel is too high. And she’s worried about healthcare, whether or not her neighbor who has cancer is going to be able to afford the life-saving drugs that she needs. She’s worried about affordable housing. She is also worried about unpacking a situation that she really thought voting for this administration was the answer, and she’s looking for an alternative. And she made a commitment. But she wants somebody that’s a working woman to go to Washington, DC, to represent working-class people.

And so, right now, Tennesseans are making a shift, right? They’ve always said that Tennessee was a red state. But that’s really not true. We have more non-voters that are inactive than we do Democrats and Republicans combined. And so, in order for this democracy to represent people, we need more people to participate by voting, registering to vote, and getting out to vote, and talking to their neighbors about what really matters.

When we have these conversations, we see everyone wants democracy to work and deal with the gerrymandering, because the gerrymandering that happened in the ninth congressional district, where it split up a minority Black community into three different congressional districts, what it did was unite us with rural Tennessee. And as a result, we’re seeing how pollution follows poverty and how data centers are targeting poor communities, and is not really helping anyone when the water usage is so high and the energy usage is so high, and those costs are passed on to the American people.

And so people want change. They want this economy to work for working people. They want public education that all the students can thrive, and they want people to be able to thrive, and not just millionaires and billionaires and trillionaires like Elon Musk.

Dominic Bowen:
Yeah, the trillionaires too. And I think that’s really important. I’d love to hear more about the data centers. I was actually talking with one of Sweden’s largest banks today, actually, about data centers. So I’d love to hear your opinion on that.

But first of all, I really want to go back to the people that you’re speaking to. And I think many of us, you know, when we travel around the world, and, you know, I’m really blessed I get to travel a lot with my work, and I meet a lot of Americans and I hear their stories, and, you know, they’re doing fantastic things. But that’s not necessarily representative of every American. These are the Americans that have had the capacity to get up and fly and travel and do things.

You’re talking about a small business owner that you met recently. Now, this is not someone who’s sitting at home on unemployment benefits, you know, or doing the wrong thing. She’s done the right thing. She’s got a business. She’s worried about bills. She talked about her neighbor. You mentioned with the pickup truck.

For many of us, and myself included, when I look at America and its fantasticness, and, you know, you hold it up in such high regard, it’s hard to reconcile the America with what we know in our head with the America that you describe.

How does that happen? How do we end up with an America that’s so fantastic, and yet business owners are struggling to pay the bills and really concerned about everyday living?

Marquita Bradshaw:
What has happened is that special interests and trillionaires and billionaires have stacked the cards in their favor. And the working class has been left behind. The minimum wage has not been raised in a very long time, and I think it’s like at $7.25 an hour. And so we need fair labor standards in order for people to have a sustainable living.

We need our public educational system to actually grow to meet the demands of a changing economy. Right now, the implementation of generative AI data centers are going to displace a lot of workers. And so we need a lifelong learning system where people can have public education when it comes to trade schools, colleges, and we can actually meet the demands of the future.

And we need to build a sustainable future because energy costs are rising, just as well as petrol. Right? And we need alternative energy. We cannot be locked in a fossil fuel infrastructure because it is causing our economy to go awry. And that is what this administration has done. And we need to move towards clean, green, renewable energy and actually be truthful about energy pollution. Like, what are we going to do with the byproducts of energy pollution? And we have to ensure that communities where I grew up, like in South Memphis, that was down the street from a military landfill, are not carrying the extra burdens of pollution. We also have, like, Elon Musk illegally put 36 methane gas turbines in Southwest Memphis, which furthers impacts our community with pollution burden. And communities should have clean air, water, and soil, no matter what ZIP code they are in, whether it’s in the United States or across the world. And we need leaders that are going to be truthful about what’s going on and moving towards solutions. Because if we build a circular economy around zero waste, it’s going to create jobs, and it’s going to heal the earth and the people, and it’s going to take those burdens of healthcare because healthcare costs rise when pollution rises.

Right? I have loved ones that are in the hospital right now that are dealing with the effects of bad air quality. And I have my nieces, my god nieces, in the house with me during this election because their mother is facing a catastrophic illness. And it’s from living in a polluted community. And so they’re looking to be orphans. And we have to know that those invisible threats, like the economy not working for working people, and pollution and the infrastructure needs that we need for energy, are things that we have to address not only internally but externally too.

Dominic Bowen:
And I wonder what you just said about the special interest groups. It really makes me think. And you talked about the minimum hourly wage being about $7.25. For any of our European listeners, if you work full time, 40 hours a week on $7.25, you couldn’t pay your rent, even just your rent in London, Stockholm, or Berlin. $7.25 an hour wouldn’t cover the rent alone. So that’s an extremely low minimum hourly rate.

But with these special interest groups, I’m wondering, as someone who’s running for Senate, how hard is it as a working-class woman to actually raise the funds that you must need to run an effective political campaign if you’re running against people that are more aligned with special interest groups?

You know, we talk about democracy. We talk about America being the best democracy in the world, but I wonder, it must seem like a really uphill battle.

Marquita Bradshaw:
Well, that’s the reason why movement building is so important. People power.

Working people may not have as many trillion dollars as Elon Musk, but we have more people. And so, yes, we do need funds to be able to reach every voter across Tennessee, but it’s really important to get people engaged and activated around American principles. Because it’s an American principle to want public education. It’s an American principle to want healthcare for your neighbors. It’s an American principle to want democracy to be uplifted in a way where we end gerrymandering and get voter participation, and move us to an economy that works for everyone to thrive.

Dominic Bowen:
And, you know, this piece of the political system we see in America, you know, is partly responsible for the declining trust that Americans have in institutions and probably also for the increasing polarized political debate that we see, not just in America, but we see globally.

But that decline in trusted institutions, that increase in polarization—so from where you’re sitting today, how serious is the problem in the United States?

And what happens when people stop trusting in democracy? You talk about there being more non-voters than there are actual voters in Tennessee. What happens when people stop believing in political institutions?

Marquita Bradshaw:
Well, apathy and hopelessness is something that can enter into any type of government structure, whether it be socialism, democracy, communism And when people lose trust in government, it is destabilizing for the actual institution of democracy. And the wrong people get in control.

And so participation is what protects democracy. And that makes it work better. And when we get more participation, like what we’ve been doing, going to all 95 counties in Tennessee, talking to the farmers, talking to the teachers, talking to the nurses, talking to working-class people that have those core American principles that are just standard—wanting everybody to have an environment where they can thrive, where it comes to education, the economy, or even the environment.

We have to get this right because it is a critical point in our history that’s happening right now. The power is being centralized to the wealthy oligarchs, and it’s happening all over the world.

And so America is ground zero to protect the world in these elections and these midterms because it’s not just Tennessee on the line. It’s the whole world, whether or not we’ll be making trade wars that don’t make sense.

We can’t afford that as Americans. Whether we go into countries with illegal wars, that’s unsustainable. Forever wars are unsustainable. Genocide is unsustainable. And so we need elected leaders like myself that can go in on day one and fight for working people.

Dominic Bowen:
So we’ve got people across Europe, from the UK to Ukraine, people in the Middle East, and then certainly across Asia and Latin America who are watching the US elections and particularly these upcoming midterms so closely because it fundamentally affects their security.

I regularly travel to Ukraine. I’ll be in Syria shortly. And what happens in these countries is directly impacted by who wins these elections in the United States. So how much do you think America’s domestic political divisions are actually affecting its ability to provide that consistent international leadership that we’ve seen in past administrations that perhaps is lacking from the current administration?

Marquita Bradshaw:
Well, if we address the domestic problems that we have in America right now, it would actually make sure our world politics match the values of the American people. Right now, you’ve got a mismatch of values because of the special interests, and so it’s really important for us to address what’s going on internally because it’s like a microcosm of what’s going on around the world. You know, cumulative pollution exists in all government structures, right? The need for energy is addressed in all government structures. The need for working people to thrive is in all government structures.

So this is not isolated to just what’s happening in our democracy in America. And people look at our policies because we are considered a world leader, and we need to ensure that we elect the right people so we can lead with compassion and make sure that we are setting up a system where working people can have healthcare, public education, affordable housing, and protecting the right to vote.

Dominic Bowen:
Well, I think the conversation about policy is a really important one. And you’ve spent much of your career campaigning on environmental justice. But governments are simultaneously confronting climate change, rising electrical demands, as you mentioned before, AI and data center expansion, energy security concerns, hybrid attacks from countries like Iran and Russia that we’re seeing right across Europe and to some extent in North America as well.

And at the same time, governments are feeling significant pressure to keep energy affordable, especially in the US, where you’re seeing some record numbers for the cost of fuel. Where and how do policymakers get this balance better between balancing national security concerns, the cost of energy, maintaining America’s developmental lead?

How do you get the balance right?

Marquita Bradshaw:
These issues are interconnected internationally. When we address national security when it comes to energy, it is destabilizing for a community like mine to actually go through climate crisis and environmental justice racism. And just recently, we had some storms that made blackouts across the city, and my family experienced a blackout for six days. And that hit our pocketbooks really hard, right? To not have energy for six days, to lose food. And these are increasing, not just here. What’s going on with the climate crisis is affecting farmers, and farmers are not just feeding people in America; they’re feeding people worldwide.

Food insecurity, water insecurity, and energy insecurity is something that destabilizes governments, and we have to ensure that we address these problems in order to have climate solutions that are bold enough to address environmental racism. And create a sustainable future because those are the jobs of the future, of how we heal the land, heal our economy, and heal our democracy of this divide.

Dominic Bowen:
And you’re running for office. You’re running for a seat in the Senate. Where are you prepared to compromise when there is conflict between climate objectives, between energy security, between defense, and between household affordability, when these things do conflict with each other?

And I recognize they’re complementary and they need to work together, but when there’s a conflict between them, where are you willing to compromise?

Marquita Bradshaw:
The compromise should never be at the expense of working people, whether in America or internationally. And right now we have seen only one dealing with these domestic issues. When these domestic issues are how these political divides have played out, not only in America, but internationally.

And we have to address the domestic issues because America is not the only one dealing with these domestic issues. When these domestic issues are exacerbated in destabilized governments and causes instability. And so I understand our role that we have internationally, but we also have to simultaneously deal with these domestic issues in order to strengthen our leadership across in trade wars, and it makes not only the world unstabilized when we don’t have just trade policies, it the world.

Right now, this current administration has picked fights with our friends and in trade wars, and it makes not only the world unstabilized when we don’t have just trade policies, it also makes our internal economy unstabilized. And so we need to have a people focus: people over profit, because right now it’s profits that people are looking for in the US Senate, in Congress, because of the special interests, and the billionaires and the trillionaires have just run amok.

And we have to take our government back and balance out where we are having the right type of measures in place in order to secure our future when it comes to generative AI data centers, when it comes to energy, when it comes to education, when, there’s a lot of polls coming out, understandably. Now, depending on who’s doing the poll and who’s collecting the data and who’s analyzing that data, we’re still seeing Washington, DC, just getting so far away from representing people. And so it’s going to be a huge shift in these midterms, and this is going over. That type of corporate greed has to be it comes to healthcare, and when it comes to ending gerrymandering and voter suppression.

Dominic Bowen:
And, you know, there’s a lot of polls coming out, understandably. Now, depending on who’s doing the poll and who’s collecting the data and who’s analyzing that data, we’re still seeing some really divergent results about the likely outcome for the midterm elections. What are the numbers you’re seeing? What is the likely outcome? Is it likely to be a change in the House or Congress? What are you seeing?

Marquita Bradshaw:
In Tennessee, there are going to be some gains on the Democratic side when it comes to the House and the US Senate, because people are just sick and tired of the rhetoric.

And Washington, DC, just getting so far away from representing people. And so it’s going to be a huge shift in these midterms, and this is going to be the beginning of working people ensuring that they have a voice.

Dominic Bowen:
And so how significant would a Democratic Senate be for the remainder of Donald Trump’s presidency? What could we expect?

Marquita Bradshaw:
You can expect some accountability and transparency and a movement towards the right direction. Right now, you know, that big, ugly bill that they talked about, it’s hitting hard across America in such negative ways. It made people so much money that already had money. Elon Musk has enough money to give everybody in America a million dollars and still have some left over. That type of corporate greed has to be contained. And we cannot sustain ourselves if this continues.

And so this is a fight for not only fair. That’s not just. And we need to reimagine what our immigration policy should be like, where it centers people and humanity, that there’s clear pathways to citizenship, and that we democracy, it’s a fight for education, economy, healthcare, and even immigration policies.

Right now, the circumventing of due process is not just affecting immigrants. Right now, the National Guard, who should be dealing with other issues, is actually domestically placed in Memphis. And it doesn’t make sense fiscally for them to be there. And the ramifications is not only our immigrants get caught in a crossfire, but people in America are also getting caught up in the crossfire that are Black and brown. They’re just rounding people up. And that’s not fair. That’s not just. And we need to reimagine what our immigration policy should be like, where it centers people and humanity, that there’s clear pathways to citizenship, and that we understand that there should be fair labor standards for immigrants. Because right now, some farmers are not only dealing with drought, but they’re also dealing with the demand for workers, and the workers just not being there because of the unfair immigration policies.

Dominic Bowen:
And so when you look ahead, let’s say we look ahead 10 years. What are the biggest risks facing the United States? I mean, not just politically, but also developmentally wise. Is it the level of education in the US? Is it the AI race? Is it social cohesion? You know, what’s going to affect America’s prosperity over the next decade?

Marquita Bradshaw:
The infrastructure is like a big, huge component of us moving towards being sustainable and thriving. When you look at data centers, they’re part of the infrastructure. When you look at energy as part of the infrastructure, when you look at education as part of the infrastructure, the roads and transportation, that’s all part of infrastructure. Things are so interconnected that we have to address how we lead our infrastructure needs because of the growing need for energy and so if you bring on generative AI and it’s going to displace workers, we need to have a system where you have continuous opportunities for public education in the higher education setting and trade schools and colleges and universities. And so when we look at what we need for the future, we have to set up a system where working people can thrive.

Dominic Bowen:
I think that’s totally understandable and something that we should be pursuing.

And if we look at a 2024 Tennessee poll that you probably know well yourself, it showed that 73% of Black Tennesseans and 65% of females living in Tennessee felt that the state was headed in the wrong direction. So I’ll just say that again: about three quarters of Black voters and about two thirds of female voters in Tennessee felt that the state was headed in the wrong direction. Now, you’ve got some amazing lineage. You’re a 10th-generation South Memphis resident.

What do you see as the largest challenges facing Tennessee in 2026?

Marquita Bradshaw:
The biggest challenges Tennesseans have is removing the leadership that does not have its best interests in place. We have to get rid of elected leaders that don’t even show up in our communities. I have been going to forums, not only in the primary, where voters have been able to ask me questions directly, and not only just ask me questions but tell me their concerns.

The US Senator that’s currently in place, he doesn’t take meetings in Washington, DC, and he doesn’t make himself available across the state. It’s some counties that I have been to that he’s never stepped foot in, and he’s been serving for all of this time, and that is not the type of leadership that we have.We cannot have people that are not accountable and transparent elected. We need people that are going to serve.

And that’s the reason why I even got involved in the first place, because the environment was such an afterthought. And that’s the reason why I got involved in politics, is because it was the last thing, or even not even mentioned at all.

And that’s how people feel in rural Tennessee, that they are an afterthought. And going across the state, talking to people in rural Tennessee and in the urban core, they feel forgotten. And they are ready for a person that’s going to go fight for them that has courage, that understands that hope takes work, and that we have to move with precision in this midterm because all of our lives depend on it.

Dominic Bowen:
And you founded an organization called Sowing Justice, and that was built on the legacy of a previous organization called Concerned Citizen Committee that was led by Doris Debbie Bradshaw.

I’m wondering if you can tell us more about your motivations to become an environmental activist and, you know, how your work with Sowing Justice has had an impact on your political priorities.

Marquita Bradshaw:
My mom. My mom walked a mile a day to inform people about what it meant to live down the street from a military landfill where the chemicals were made to kill people and plants very effectively. Therefore, a lot of people that we love, including her, lost their lives to cumulative pollution.

And so that legacy of her walking a mile a day and showing me what people power looked like, because in the beginning I was like, “Hey, Mom, that’s the Department of Defense. They got the biggest budget in the world. You know, how are we going to fight them?”

And she said, “I’ll show you.”

And so that kind of courage and that hope and that fight for democracy is what I stand on.

And I started Sowing Justice, which is a coalition of environmental justice activists between Tennessee, Mississippi, and Arkansas, and we ensure that we work with people to engage them on all levels of decision-making. Voting is just one aspect of decision-making, and it’s so many layers of decision-making with boards and different things throughout the community. We help people engage in order to fight for healthy and safe communities, for a circular economy that will move us to a sustainable future.

Dominic Bowen:
Fantastic. Well, thanks for explaining that, Marquita.

And when you look around the world, what are the risks that concern you the most when you’re looking globally, when you’re talking with your constituents, when you’re sitting down to a meal with your family? What are the risks around the world that concern you the most?

Marquita Bradshaw:
When my family sits at dinner, first of all, we have Sunday. Not only do we have dinner throughout the week when I’m at home, but Sunday dinners, all my mama’s brothers and sisters come together to have a Sunday dinner. And so our table is lively around a lot of world events. We represent the American people at Sunday dinner. We have independents, Democrats and Republicans that sit at the table, and they’re concerned about the trade policy.

They’re concerned about genocide and forever wars. They’re concerned about what’s going on with generative AI. They are concerned about the local economy that’s not only happening here in America around the fuel cost. We’re not the only one dealing with skyrocketing petrol. They’re concerned about transportation. They’re concerned about rebuilding an economy that works for everyone to thrive. And so these are the lively conversations that we have. We may differ in our approaches of how we think it should happen. We all agree that trickle-down economics is not working for anybody. But these conversations happen every Sunday at our house in such a lively way, and throughout my childhood, because my mom and her brothers and sisters are all servant leaders throughout the community.

Dominic Bowen:
Fantastic. Well, that’s great. And I think that’s one of the strengths, and that’s what makes for good families, but also good democracies, where we can sit down at a table and disagree with people and still appreciate them, still love them, still listen to their opinions, ask questions out of curiosity and a real desire to learn. And I think that it sounds like your family’s got that nailed down, or at least heading in the right direction anyway.

Marquita Bradshaw:
Well, good food always brings people together, right?

Dominic Bowen:
Good food. Good food. 

Marquita Bradshaw:
Family, culture, and music. It always brings people together. And even in this campaign, we use certain aspects of that. We do fish fries, barbecues, town halls. That helps because people are more agreeable when they have good food and also good conversation and good people around them, and we find our commonalities.

We’re here. We know that America can be more than what we are right now. And that we can’t return to the past because there was so much inequality in it, and that people really want justice and they have the courage to fight for justice. And not only understanding that hope is something that we aspire to be, that it’s going to take a lot of hard work, and it’s people on the ground now that are a lovely coalition of people from all races, from all socioeconomic communities, that are getting involved right now to move us to a better America.

Thank you for having me. And if people want to learn more, they can go to marquitabradshaw.com. And I love getting letters from around the world. I have something in my inbox just about every week from somebody from around the world. And I love getting letters from the kids talking about me being an environmental champion. So keep those coming.

Dominic Bowen:

Well, that was a great conversation with Marquita Bradshaw. I really appreciated hearing her thoughts on the US midterm elections and the impact on communities across America and around the world. Today’s podcast was produced and coordinated by Madeleine Humphrey. I’m Dominic Bowen, your host. Thanks very much for listening. We’ll speak again in the next couple of days