Episode 293: Reko Diq and the Human and Environmental Cost of Mining in Balochistan with Lateef Johar Baloch

What happens when the world’s hunger for copper collides with a province where 63% live in poverty, most households lack reliable electricity and water, and dissent is met with disappearance? I’m Dominic Bowen, and this is The International Risk Podcast—where we cut through the noise to examine the risks that leaders have to grapple with every day.

Today: Reko Diq—one of the largest undeveloped copper-gold deposits on the planet—touted as Pakistan’s ticket to foreign capital and the energy transition. The Western pitch: jobs, growth, “responsible mining.” Local human rights actors have complained about decades of militarisation, enforced disappearances, and communities sidelined from decisions about their land and water.

Our guest is Lateef Johar Baloch—human rights researcher, member of the Human Rights Council of Balochistan,

In our conversation with Lateef today, we want to look beyond the headlines of Reko Diq as a multi-billion-dollar mining project and dig into what it represents on the ground, who benefits, and what are the risks.  

The International Risk Podcast brings you conversations with global experts, frontline practitioners, and senior decision-makers who are shaping how we understand and respond to international risk. From geopolitical volatility and organised crime, to cybersecurity threats and hybrid warfare, each episode explores the forces transforming our world and what smart leaders must do to navigate them. Whether you’re a board member, policymaker, or risk professional, The International Risk Podcast delivers actionable insights, sharp analysis, and real-world stories that matter.

Dominic Bowen is the host of The International Risk Podcast and Europe’s leading expert on international risk and crisis management. As Head of Strategic Advisory and Partner at one of Europe’s leading risk management consulting firms, Dominic advises CEOs, boards, and senior executives across the continent on how to prepare for uncertainty and act with intent. He has spent decades working in war zones, advising multinational companies, and supporting Europe’s business leaders. Dominic is the go-to business advisor for leaders navigating risk, crisis, and strategy; trusted for his clarity, calmness under pressure, and ability to turn volatility into competitive advantage. Dominic equips today’s business leaders with the insight and confidence to lead through disruption and deliver sustained strategic advantage.

Transcript

We have natural gas, we have resources, they’re not used properly or for the development of people. So who they’re putting at risk? They’re putting their own people at risk, their own companies at risk, putting local people at risk. So that should not happen. 

This should be considered, this should be addressed. Welcome back to the International Risk Podcast, where we discuss the latest world news and significant events that impact businesses and organisations worldwide. So what happens when the world’s hunger for copper collides with a province where 63% of people live in poverty? I’m Dominic Bowen, and this is the International Risk Podcast, where we cut through the noise to examine the real risk that leaders are grappling with every single day. 

Today, we’re going to talk about Balochistan. It’s one of the largest underdeveloped provinces in Pakistan, but it’s also got one of the largest copper and gold deposits in the world. This particular copper and gold deposit is being touted as Pakistan’s ticket to foreign capital and to a successful energy transition. 

The Western pitch is quite clear. It’s all about growth, development, jobs, and responsible mining. But what local human rights activists are complaining about is decades of militarisation, enforced disappearances, and communities that have been sidelined about decisions about their lands and about their water. 

And our guest today is Lateef Yohar Baloch. He’s a human rights researcher and he’s a member of the Human Rights Council of Balochistan. In our conversation with Lateef today, we want to look beyond the headlines about the new mine, the multi-billion dollar project, and we want to dig into what this represents on the ground, who benefits from it, and what are the risks. 

Lateekf, welcome to the International Risk Podcast. Thank you for having me. Lateef, you grew up in Balochistan. 

Can you help us understand, why would someone who just bought an electric vehicle in Stockholm or Sydney care about a copper or gold project that they’ve never heard of, a place they’ve never been to in Balochistan? Help us connect the dots here. Most of the world knows about Balochistan because of its natural resources, particularly minerals. It is important for the world because it attracts global powers. 

China, the United States, they both are competing to hold that land and its resources in their control. Generally, Balochistan is a very beautiful land with different kinds of landscapes, mountains, forests, plain land, and rivers. It has a coastline with beautiful, different kinds of animals. 

Balochistan’s livelihood is mostly based on agriculture, livestock. 70 percent of people’s livelihood is based on agriculture. That’s why it’s important for Balochistan’s people to talk to address the issue of mining. 

That’s the main point the mining companies and global organisations are ignoring or they are not aware about. That’s causing lots of challenges. I think I can quote an international journalist who recently wrote that the question is no longer the mining project in Balochistan can generate billions of dollars in revenue, but the question is whether a global mining giant can actually operate safely in a province that’s on the brink of a deadly insurgency. 

The journalist went on to say this project is seen largely by locals, not as one of development, but one of exploitation. Can you help us understand, Lateef, paint us a picture of daily life in western Balochistan on the border with Afghanistan, not far from the ocean, for a local family? What gets better? What gets riskier? Tell us about what happens in their daily life as this mine comes into operation. Let me start with my own story.

I grew up in a very small village and mountainous area. When I was growing up, myself, my family, parents, we don’t have any land, any farmland, any other property, but my grandfather had some land. When I was growing up, each family had hundreds of goats and sheep, and they took them to mountain and then come back in the evening to my uncle because my uncle also had hundreds of goats and sheep. 

And the other part of the livelihood was to go to mountain, bring woods and other kind of natural stuff to make carpets and blankets and these kind of things to just make a living. And that’s unfortunately because of this climate change or lack of facilities are gone. And on top of that, the daily life is now Pakistan militarised the region. 

Pakistan stopped the people, questioned them, detained them for going to mountain to bring even oats. So that’s how it dramatically changed in a small village, far from any discovered big natural resources or minerals. When we talk about the region where the minerals are being extracted, such as Chagi district, where right now barrack mining and Chinese MCC are digging gold and copper, that region is completely, completely militarised. 

And local people are not allowed to go close to those minings without facing lots of military checkpoints and investigations and snap checkings from the military personnel, sometimes being humiliated, sometimes being taken away from the passenger vehicle, sometimes disappeared for years. And one example is in the region right now, one very prominent human rights and political campaigner, Zubair Balochis was his name. The Pakistani government raided on his home and stormed the house with bullets and killed him along with another friend. 

In this situation, the local people think these kind of operations, mining operation or projects causing further killing, not uplifting the local people. This is one example. And other example is the water source. 

Chagi district, the hottest and driest district, not only in Balochistan, but in the region. So water going down. So this is the situation people are living right now. 

So that’s why it’s important for the local and that’s why it’s important even for the companies to rethink and be better, do better. Otherwise, both sides suffer. Lateef, we know that China has been pressuring Islamabad to increase their counterinsurgency operations in Balochistan. 

And at the same time, China has been approved to deploy their own security and their own private military personnel from China to Balochistan. Can you tell us more about the CPEC, the Chinese-Pakistan Economic Corridor, and the increasing militarisation of their operations? China-Pakistan Economic Corridor is a collective project signed between China’s and Pakistani government. One thing I want to clarify, when we say Pakistan or Pakistani government, basically it’s just one province, Punjab, our capital, Islamabad. 

They control all the institutions in Pakistan. They run everything happening in Balochistan. China-Pakistan Economic Corridor has become one of the worst projects for the Baloch people. 

China is the first country, foreign country, directly involved in Balochistan. Not only just funding Pakistani government or militarisation, but also, as you said, China being allowed to bring its own security forces to protect Balochistan. The reason I’m saying it is because myself, my family also is a victim of China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. 

Because thousands of families and villages were affected, many of them were forced to leave their homes by the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. My parents’ house was burnt down by the same security forces deployed to protect China-Pakistan Economic Corridor. And once they announced the China-Pakistan projects, Pakistani government announced a new special security force of over 15,000, including 5,000 private militia to protect this project.

Private militia, they are hired by the military to abduct and kill Baloch political human rights activists and nationalist and civil society members. And also, some of those have been alleged members and recruiter for sectarian terrorist groups such as ISIS and Lashkar-e-Jangui. So, this project brought this for the people, while local people getting nothing.

And I wonder, earlier you mentioned Barrack and the Rikotik mining project. Now, this is a Canadian company with US and European funding. Isn’t there hope that this Canadian project might be much better for the local people, for the Baloch, as opposed to these Chinese operations with the private militia? That’s what we thought. 

That’s what people hope. And that’s what I still hope. When we talk about Baloch people’s response to Chinese extraction and to Canadian extraction, it’s completely different. 

They’re not touching Canadian company or any other Western company. I believe I submit the case to the Canadian government’s department here, and I’m also campaigning all around the world with the help of other friends to make Canadians, Europeans and Americans realise that your organisation is strong. Your organisation has been doing the same the Chinese are doing. 

Because what happened with China was there for decades. China started mining in Charlie in 2001, but they never tried to bring a new law or any act to show that everything is legal. But the second time Barrack Gold got the project in 2022, they forced the Pakistani government to bring new law, new acts to protect this, specifically the Rikotik mining project. 

And the same project, Pakistan Supreme Court declared illegal in 2030. But in 2022, it says legal. So that’s the dangerous part these companies are bringing because they are smart. 

They want to show the world that it’s not us doing it. It’s the Pakistani law. So that’s the dangerous part. 

And the same organisation and Barrack did sign the agreement with those people in Balochistan considers not only any public support, but they are involved in abductions and killings and robbery. So those people are now empowered and project including Rikotik mining. The Rikotik mining project has been described as having the potential to transform Pakistan into the Saudi Arabia of copper. 

Now it’s got copper reserves just at this one mining site of over 60 billion US dollars and probably another 30 billion dollars worth of gold. But beyond this economic promise, we’ve seen that there’s been more than 35 civil society organisations warning that this mining project carries excessive human rights and security risks. And the United Nations has also commented that Balochistan is experiencing serious human rights violations and international crimes pointing to the enforced disappearances and extrajudicial killings. 

And in April 2025, the Human Rights Council of Balochistan reported 168 enforced disappearances and 67 extrajudicial killings alongside a crackdown on human rights defenders. I wonder if you can help our listeners understand how do you know that these disappearances were forced? How do you know that these extrajudicial killings actually occurred? Can you talk to us about how do you collect this data? How do you verify it? How do you know that it is accurate? First, it’s a very sad and sensitive issue in Balochistan enforced disappearances and extrajudicial killings. It’s also a challenge and a task should be taken by the international community and international organisation to address. 

Unfortunately, that’s not happening. And we know because I was part of this movement when I was growing up in early 2000. I was in high school. 

I started my social political activism with the student organisation, Baloch student organisation. So we were peaceful. We were just creating awareness about our land, about our people, about our culture, about our history, about resources we have and why we don’t have them. 

People from outside of Balochistan are coming, taking them away, but we still don’t have clean drinking water. And then Pakistani military started abducting and killing our people, our young people, youths. So I know many people, personally I met them, I worked with them, they went missing. 

And their parents know me, their children, some of them know me, their siblings know me. We live in a mountainous villages. We know each other. 

And once you are known in Balochistan, you are active in politics or activism, people know you, people trust you. That’s why we know them. When we collect our data, what we do, we directly contact the family of the victim. 

And then we confirm that and we ask for their documents and for whatever information needed. Because unfortunately, international reporting is very complicated. Even one information is missing. 

UN’s Working Group on Enforced Disappearance do not initiate any case or transfer them to the Pakistani government and asking them where the person is. The same thing is, it’s not only the victim. When the victim’s family, parents or siblings or wife or children come forward, say something or submit their case in Pakistani government, go after them.

And we also talk to the journalists, talk to different sources. And some of my friends, they send their documents long before they get abducted or got forbidden or killed. Then we can use those documents to submit their cases. 

So that’s how my own hunger strike started, because we did everything. No one was listening. Then I went on hunger strike for 46 days in 2014 to highlight the issue of missing persons, extradition killing.

And I wonder if you can tell us a little bit more about the history. There’s the Durand line, which a British general drew, literally, actually was the formal border, created border between Afghanistan and Pakistan. And it cuts right through the Khyber Pashtun region, as well as Balochistan, actually meaning half of the communities are in Afghanistan, half the communities are in Pakistan. 

This really did fuel longstanding identity crisis, governance crisis, border security issues. These are borders that were created by a British general during colonial times, but not recognised on the grounds. And then further to that, it was in 1947, during the partitioning and separation between India and Pakistan. 

I understand that the Baloch tribes were forced to join Pakistan more properly. So this grievance has kind of happened twice. Can you tell us a little bit about the history of Balochistan and why the Baloch consider themselves very separate from the Punjabi and Islamabad? Again, many of our listeners in Sweden and the UK and Germany may not fully understand the tribalism and why that’s still so important today in 2025. 

Yeah, it’s a really good question. The history is too long and history is full of lots of sad events and barbarisms by different invaders. Balochistan has seen almost every invader in the world from Turkish, Mongolian and British, of course. 

And another reminder, how today’s mining companies, global multinational companies resemble East India Company because these are changing the laws and powers. When East India Company goes there, they of course exploit everything in India and then the British come and control the company and then they want to go to Afghanistan, aiming to counter USSR. So then they had to go to Balochistan. 

So when they do in 1839, because we are tribal people, we had a tribal system, there was a king, and then go to the king of Balochistan and collect their initial agreement. But then, of course, the Baloch, some of them take the British troops and British kill the king and use Balochistan’s land and go to Afghanistan. There is a bloodshed happened called Kabul massacre. 

Then they change the entire system, Baloch tribal system. British use this tribal system, make it just one family orientated or just to give the entire power to one or two families. Within that system, people start fighting for control. 

What happened after that, British was suffering in India. British started using religious sectarian divisions. Punjab province, they were part of British military.

They became stronger, stronger. They were the only group in the region. They were most loyalist to British. 

And that’s why when British created Pakistan, that’s where Balochistan said that we are separate. Because historically, our language, our culture, our tradition are separate than Indian. We were never part of India. 

And Punjab was part of India. Sindh was part of India. As you said, Devran line was created that divided Afghanistan as well as Balochistan.

Baloch people, there are lots of lands and people in Afghanistan at the moment. One part of given to Iran by British in 1928. So that division now is called Western Balochistan.

So when British was leaving us, we had that time two parliaments and both parliaments rejected that we are not joining Pakistan. We remain a spread and independent state. Of course, the Pakistani government at that time, they were not listening. 

They just invaded Balochistan in 1948. That’s the beginning of Baloch resistance, basically. Since 1960s, Baloch student organisation was established.

So that started bringing ordinary people, young people, educated people. I was part of it as well. This comes to 2000s. 

It takes a very decisive turn. Baloch student organisation started like we are not accepting any Pakistani institution, parliament, but we continue our peaceful protest. That’s why Pakistani government started increased the brutal abductions, killings, and destruction of people’s lands and livelihood.

You talked about that this struggle has been going on since at least 1947. And some of the groups seem to be quite well resourced. They’ve got very good communications.

They’ve obviously got weapons. They’re able to carry out very successful operations against government security forces. We’ve got the Baloch Liberation Army, the Balochistan Liberation Front.

We’ve got the Baloch Liberation Army Azad. Where are they getting their support from? Yeah. The one thing we have to know about the region is region has been always in conflict by different powers, Russian, USSR, and US conflict. 

When Russia came to Afghanistan, it bring lots of weapons, particularly AK-47. And it is the common weapon. Almost every Baloch used to have one or two guns at home. 

Of course, Taliban and US war, again, flow of weapons. Pakistani military sell weapons. Recently, it’s like every day if you open the news, local news read that the Baloch insurgents captured some police or lawyers or even Pakistan army and taken their vehicles and other stuff, whatever they have. 

It’s a region, definitely. It is involving China, India, US, Russia, Iran. There’s always going to be something available.

And there’s always going to be someone looking for that. I think that’s right. And I think Balochistan has over a third of Pakistan’s natural gas resources. 

Balochistan has about half of Pakistan’s mineral wealth. Conversely, though, 85% of the residents in Balochistan don’t have clean water. 75% of the residents of Balochistan don’t have electricity. 

And 63% of the population live in poverty. Can you explain this disparity? Now, why does Balochistan have so much of Pakistan’s natural wealth, but also have so much of the country’s poverty? Yeah, that’s one of the issues Baloch people are trying to address and fight for it. It’s not that Balochistan cannot afford to feed its people or cannot afford to be developed. 

Balochistan is very resource-rich. Baloch people, despite being suppressed physically, mentally, financially, security, they still are very creative. They’re doing everything their own. 

So the thing is, because Pakistani government, Islamabad and Punjab do not want to develop Balochistan. They can’t trust Baloch people. That’s why they bring everyone, for everything, someone outside of Balochistan. 

So they want to control Baloch people’s lives, livelihood, even culture and language. As you said, like, water is a big, big thing. It’s not just the clean water. 

It is, as I was saying, Balochistan’s most of the livelihood comes from agriculture and livestock. And their main source is groundwater or somehow river waters. The groundwater in Chagi, particularly right now Chinese and Canadian companies are extracting, the water is going down. 

A recent report came out, the locals are leaving their lands and their villages because the water is going down and because of the security challenges. And the Chagi district, around 89 percent population use wood for cooking and other making their food. So what happened? We have natural gas. 

We have resources. They’re not used properly or for the development of people. So these are the challenges and security and environmental risks these companies are bringing to the region and to the people particularly.

And I’d love to hear more about that. Now, with this global scramble for copper, with this global scramble for electrification, for clean energy, as the world tries to transition towards clean energy, the demand for copper has just skyrocketed. In some cases, we know around the world, this has overrided human rights safeguards. 

If you were speaking to the leaders at Barrick Mining and to the international finances that are financing this project, what would your advice be to them? How can they make sure that this project is successful for them, is successful for the global green transition, but also successful for the people of Balochistan? When we talk about clean transition or clean energy, unfortunately, it’s not for the people on the ground, because for the people, indigenous people, first thing is clean water. That’s the important thing. But that clean water is already polluted by different minings. 

And in some regions in Balochistan, chemicals were found in people’s blood where the particularly coal minings are happening. So my first request is transparency. If Barrick and any other company is saying this, everything is okay, nothing is wrong, and we are doing great, so then should allow at least local journalists and human rights organisations and independent third-party investigators, reporters, United Nations, transparency, access to the mining site and operations. 

I’m giving the example of Barrick because we hold from these countries. China is, everyone knows, they don’t care about any law and anything at that point. So how we make sure that the police, the so-called security forces deployed to protect Barrick’s mining operation are not involved in these kinds of human rights violations. 

And also those IFC, Asian Development Bank, and Canadian institution, World Bank as well, make sure their money is not being used for human rights violations, for suffocating local people, and also empowering those that are considered perpetrator of abduction and killings in the And Lateef, China controls about 40% of copper processing worldwide. And the US and its allies see this mine, the Rico-Dick mine, as a really strategic alternative source. The Trump administration itself has framed access to critical minerals like copper as a national security priority. 

So that means that this mine in Balochistan is a national security priority for the US, for Europe. So this is a really big priority. And as part of that, we know that organisations like Barrick are conducting stakeholder engagement and engaging with communities and trying to have consultations. 

How genuine do you think these consultations are? Should they be occurring? Are they occurring with the right people? If not, what needs to change with regards to community engagement by these mining companies? Yeah, that’s a very true thing and sad thing that international powers for their competition, for their security, they do things they’re even against their own so-called values and international laws. But I think they should also think about the security of the people on the land. In Balochistan case, it’s not people are against the Canadian company entirely. 

They’re not allowing to work there. They’re not allowing to mine there. The question is the same company doing everything with the forces they’ve been abducting and killing and destroying everything Baloch people have or made, and also empowering those people locally, they are considered that squad, drug mafia, religious extremists.

So in this situation, even use force or European Union use force to compete China to use force against the local people, it creates further challenges. China is trying to become the superpower or the US competitor, but it has been facing very severe challenges in Balochistan. The reason? Because China never consented Baloch people because China did everything with Punjab and Islamabad and China started killing and abducting our people. 

So I think it would be much easier, cheaper for the US, for the European Union, for any other country, if they respect the local people, genuinely connect with them, talk to them. I believe no power in the world can defeat them. And it would be much better and peaceful process.

And China will have no say even in the region. But do you think that’s realistic with the insurgency groups so powerful and the attacks on mining resources and against the Pakistan authorities is so frequent. And as you said, they’re so effective. 

I think a lot of the international actors, I understand why and I understand the rationale and motivation. I don’t agree with it, I understand the motivation behind the attacks on the Chinese groups that are working in Balochistan. But with these new groups coming in from America and Canada and Europe, should they feel safe when engaging with the Baloch groups or the groups in Balochistan? One thing, I’m a political human rights and campaigner and activist, but I grew up in Balochistan. 

I know Baloch insurgency, particularly this phase started in 2000. I grew up within it. Baloch insurgents are the power. 

There are two power in Balochistan right now. Baloch insurgents, of course, they have support of Baloch public and Pakistani security, which is now declining. It cannot protect itself. 

This is a reality. Someone is going to accept it or not. And it’s how they’re going to deal with that. 

And Baloch people have never intentioned to attack anyone except those they come and attack the people, take their resources, for example, China. As I was saying, Chinese companies are being attacked. Canadian is not. 

It means the insurgents have their own policies. I believe they will be willing to talk to Western power. And one thing from my understanding, from my reporting, with this system in Pakistan, with this control only in the hand of Pakistani military, Punjab and Islamabad, nothing is going to change. 

Nothing is going to be stable. One day they are going to be involved. When the U.S. said, OK, it’s not my issue, but I can come here. 

And then now recently, I don’t know if you’ve seen Pakistan cheap up army stuff and prime minister went to the White House, brought some example of real earth minerals. But those real earth minerals are not in Punjab or Islamabad. They are in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa in Balochistan, where everyday Pashtuns, Baloch are being bombed and killed, children, young people, thousands of people on roads. 

Those people are never going to accept that. They’re not against America. They’re not against Europe. 

They’re not against any development. But once these companies or state involved with one Pakistani government, I think it’s natural. America has already been involved in the region and caused destruction. 

I don’t know how the U.S. completely ignored this. Even the existence of the people, the basic rights, self-determination is important thing. And during the same time, U.S. government is signing agreements with the Pakistani government to extract Balochistan and Pakhtunkhwa’s resources. 

How the local people think about this? And when European Union is, because local people have more expectation from European Union than the U.S. in terms of human rights, but European Union saying nothing, no matter if you are doing underground, pressurising Pakistani government, but if you are not saying anything, Pakistani government using your silence, using American meetings with the president or any other ones, oh, America is with us, Baloch people are nothing. So these are serious challenges, unfortunately, and local people are not allowed to talk. International recognition, human rights are not allowed to go to Balochistan. 

And there’s no help for Baloch people, for activists, for human rights defenders. Unfortunately, Balochistan issue is so deep, so sad, so long, and it has really good sides, but they were never explored, never listened to. Myself as a human rights activist, as I grew up there and I’ve been focussing for last around more than two decades, I cannot see any other solution if the U.S., European Union, U.K., even any other country, if they are thinking to invest in the region, if they continue ignoring Baloch, Pashtun and other people. 

And Lateef, I wonder, just in the last 30 seconds, when you look around the world, what are the international risks that concern you the most? Unfortunately, the international risk is everything right now is happening and decided by few people. The public is not involved. The public say is not involved. 

So that’s the biggest risk. And that’s the reason our international institutions have almost failed. United Nations is an example. 

It is focused on states and state-run. The public is not taken consider. As I was saying, if you decide the entire region is taking the street, protesting to protect their lives, families, children, demanding the basic things and you ignore them and you sign an agreement, how are you going to implement that? You’re going to use force, right? So that force is the risk for the locals, for the international community, for the companies. 

The same governments, our government, Canadian government, U.K. government and U.S. government, go to check their website that said the travel warning, do not go to Hyderabad, Pakistan. But the same governments encouraging, enforcing, and empowering their companies, their nationals, go to dig mining there. So who they are putting at risk? They’re putting their own people at risk, their own companies at risk, Putting local people at risk. This risk should be considered. This should be addressed. All levels.

Well, thanks very much, Lateef, and thanks very much for coming on the International WIS podcast.

Thank you so much, Dominic. Thanks for inviting me. 

Well, that was a great conversation Latif Johan Baluch. He’s a human rights researcher and  advocate and a member of the Human Rights Council of Baluchistan. I appreciated hearing his thoughts on the risks and the opportunities in Baluchistan today. You can now watch our podcast on YouTube. So please watch, subscribe and like our content on YouTube as well. Today’s podcast was produced and coordinated by Anna Kumulstedt. I’m Dominic Bowen, your host. Thanks for listening. We’ll speak again in the next few days.