Episode 315: The Afterlife of Far-Right Extremism with Scott Ernest

Coordinated and Produced by Elisa Garbil

In this episode, we hear from Scott Ernest about his journey into far-right extremism, exploring the factors that drew him in, including fear, wedge issues, and the influence of social media and conspiracy theories. He also reflects on how the far-right ecosystem has evolved and the unique challenges faced by LGBTQIA+ individuals within these movements.

Scott shares his personal exit story and highlights case studies of successful disengagement, offering insights for companies on identifying early warning signs of extremism and mitigating associated risks. The conversation concludes with a broader discussion of global risks, rising violence, and concerns about government-backed extremism, providing a nuanced perspective on the challenges of confronting and preventing radicalisation.

Scott Ernest is a former white nationalist recruiter and activist, most notable for being a moderator on the white nationalist forum Stormfront, as well as a recruiter for the now-defunct organisation Pioneer Little Europe Kalispell. He was also a member of the Oath Keepers, Asatru Folk Assembly, and several other groups. He exited the white nationalist movement in 2016 due to getting disgusted with the negativity and violence in the movement, especially because he had met mass murderers over the 12 years that he was involved. Scott currently runs the non-profit NGO, the Center for Extremism Prevention and Intervention x Hands of Eir, which he founded to help people leaving far-right extremist movements. He specializes in creating a safe space for LGBTQ+ people who have found themselves in such movements, and has himself come out as queer. Scott is back in Montana after receiving a degree elsewhere and is a current MSW student at the University of Montana, while he resides in an RV in the Flathead.

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Transcript:

Scott Ernest: Donald Trump is absolutely a white nationalist president. I’m not gonna say he’s a neo-Nazi by any stretch of the means. I don’t think he personally has any real beliefs. But his government is absolutely far right and is absolutely white nationalist. Stephen Miller, his advisor, is absolutely a white nationalist. I had mutual contacts with him, so I know that for a fact.

Elisa Garbil: Welcome back to the International Risk Podcast, where we discuss the latest world news and significant events that impact businesses and organizations worldwide.

Dominic Bowen: Hi, I have one question before we dive into today’s episode. If this podcast helps you make sense of geopolitics, security, and the risks that are affecting all of us, please hit follow or subscribe. My commitment to you is it will keep producing the highest quality episodes with the best guests and conversations that leave you better prepared for what’s coming in our world. Please follow and subscribe today. And a quick shout out to our [00:01:00] sponsor, Conductor. Most organizations say they exercise their crisis management plans, but what they actually do is review a slide deck and have a polite conversation around it.

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Right-wing accelerationism and extremism aren’t just an AFR subculture—they’re increasingly influential in many of the world’s most powerful democracies. I’m Dominic Bowen, host of the International Risk Podcast, where we unpack the international risks facing business leaders, policy advisors, politicians, and all of us living in society. Today we are dissecting the far right and other [00:02:00] accelerationist movements. Our guest today, Scott Ernest, is a former white supremacist who now works as a de-radicalization exit coach. We’re going to unpack how people get pulled into extremist groups, how they get out, and what leaders should be doing about the risks in their organizations and societies.

Scott, welcome to the International Risk Podcast.

Scott Ernest: Hi, Dominic. It’s nice to be here.

Dominic Bowen: And you are joining us from wintry Montana, is that right?

Scott Ernest: Yes. I live out in northwest Montana, the Kalispell area. It’s one of the same places that I helped recruit for a hate group.

Dominic Bowen: Okay. Well, when we talk about recruiting for hate groups, Scott, can you, in maybe just two minutes, tell us what pulled you into white supremacist circles originally and ultimately what pushed you out?

Scott Ernest: Well, I had a weird entrance story. It was 2004, early in the internet, and I happened to be searching online one day and came across a blog that [00:03:00] was trying to get men to, how do I put this, commit crimes toward these 12-year-old girls who used to have a band called Prussian Blue. It was a white nationalist band that their mom basically forced them to be in. They were just doing what their mom wanted, and this person was trying to get people to harm them. I got irritated and contacted the authorities, who kinda shrugged it off, but they actually asked me to contact the parents, and I did.

Unfortunately, that was kind of my entrance into that world, where I met April Gatey, who was very well known at the time. I became a friend of the family, and they started by putting me as a moderator on the girls’ own website. Then I joined Stormfront and kind of went down the rabbit hole from there over a 12-year period. I even became a Stormfront moderator. I moved out to Montana to be part of the group that April started, and that’s kind of where I ended up.

Dominic Bowen: So [00:04:00] Scott, looking back today, what drew you deeper into the far right? Was it ideology, the community, grievances, identity? What moved the needle for you?

Scott Ernest: My issue was that I am a heathen, a Saru. It’s a pagan religion, a little more on the conservative side, although most heathens are not white supremacist. Unfortunately, because of symbolism and other issues, heathens tend to get pulled into the movement easily. I was susceptible partially because of that. I was susceptible because I’m white, I’m Gen X—there were a lot of factors that made me more susceptible than most.

Now, I was also queer, closeted. I did keep some of my more tolerant elements, so I’d say I was more moderate than most white nationalists. Unfortunately, that made me somewhat more dangerous because I knew how to talk to, for example, [00:05:00] liberals and leftists, and could manipulate my way in to recruit people who would normally shy away from white nationalists.

Dominic Bowen: Noting your story, beliefs, and values, what were the groups, individuals, or societal changes portrayed as threats, and how did that influence your behavior when you were part of these groups?

Scott Ernest: The entire far right is geared toward insecurity and fear. It’s about using wedge issues to systematically grow your base. It’s a form of grooming. Some of my wedge issues weren’t nearly as extreme—I wasn’t necessarily against multiracial families or Jewish people—but I was angry about liberalism and the suppression of freedoms. I’m very libertarian, so even freedom to be a jerk or a racist got my hackles up. I tended to be more diplomatic than most, which probably made it easier for me to get out, but also more dangerous because I was somewhat reasonable.

Dominic Bowen: Yeah, I can understand that logic. So that was 2004 when you got involved. We’re now 2026, about 22 years on. How has the far-right ecosystem changed over the last decade or two, online or offline? [00:07:00]

Scott Ernest: The first decade was a decline. People weren’t really buying into the movement, and social media outrage wasn’t as pronounced. Around 2016, with Trump 1.0, which was also when I was exiting, social media became the biggest gateway to hate and extremism. Since I’ve gotten out, it’s gotten worse. I don’t think the population of extremists has increased, but the undercurrent of bigotry is much more vocal.

Dominic Bowen: Is that why groups feel it’s okay to say things publicly that would have only been said in private a decade ago?

Scott Ernest: Absolutely. Billionaires who own social media, like Elon Musk, enable this. When there’s no pushback, people are motivated to keep doing it and getting worse. Online, it’s loud, but offline it’s still a minority. We need to get a handle on it, or things will worsen, especially considering U.S. actions toward European allies.

Dominic Bowen: Interesting. Elon Musk’s statements align with the alt-right, not the far right. Adam Wain Division—small clandestine neo-Nazi terrorists aiming to accelerate conflict—how does that differ from traditional far-right extremists? [00:10:00]

Scott Ernest: Most groups talk a lot but do little. Accelerationist groups like Adam Wain Division and The Base want to accelerate events, like triggering the Insurrection Act. Half of my exit-coaching clients have been in Adam Wain Division. Traditional groups were old school: marches, Oath Keepers militia, that sort of thing.

Dominic Bowen: Conspiracy theories—how do they factor in, especially around Trump’s first and second terms?

Scott Ernest: Conspiracy theories play a big role. Once involved, people listen to conspiracy promoters. I’ve always enjoyed a good conspiracy, but dangerous ones, like Pizzagate or QAnon, promote racism or anti-Semitism. We have volunteers who specialize in these issues at the Center for Extremism Prevention and Intervention (formerly Hands of Air).

Dominic Bowen: Thanks for explaining. Scott, LGBTQIA+ identities and far-right extremism are often seen as opposites, but the reality is more complex. Can you unpack that? [00:14:00]

Scott Ernest: I founded Hands of Air to provide a safe space for LGBTQ people leaving the movement. Many queer people are in the movement, often closeted. Sometimes it’s a “pick me” situation or simply upbringing. Even if personal views evolve, political views may not. This explains why we see so many queer people in the movement.

Dominic Bowen: Can you share what helps someone disengage from the far right, and what factors contributed to your own exit? [00:16:00]

Scott Ernest: I got fed up with white nationalists over 12 years. I realized many of them were terrible people—the last straw was a recruit threatening school kids on social media. Around the same time, a Jewish family in Whitefish was attacked online, which I opposed. Over time, interacting with people I hadn’t before helped me change. I also met Christian Pini, who had a free radicals project. I’ve helped others exit, including a trafficked American girl in the UK and Tyler Depe, a transgender man formerly in Adam Wain Division. My approach often involves shared activities like video games to build community while talking. None of us are perfect, but change is possible. [00:19:00]

Dominic Bowen: If you were advising a global company, what would you say about underestimating right-wing extremism in employees?

Scott Ernest: Employees involved in extremist movements put others at risk. They may not go on a rampage, but their beliefs are harmful. It’s not about immediate firing, but active participation poses a serious risk to colleagues and the organization.

Dominic Bowen: What are early warning signs HR should look for? [00:21:00]

Scott Ernest: Many hide it well. Pay attention to words and behavior, but in the U.S., free speech makes this tricky. Social media can provide insight, but companies should avoid overreach. If an employee’s values clash with the company’s culture, that may be cause for concern.

Dominic Bowen: Globally, what risks concern you most?

Scott Ernest: Increasing violence. It’s why I got involved and why I left the movement. Political violence is rising worldwide—in the U.S., Europe, Australia—but it’s still a vocal minority. [00:22:00]

Dominic Bowen: Of all types of violence, which worries you most?

Scott Ernest: Currently, U.S. federal government violence. It threatens not only the people but also allies. This government is concerning—Trump’s administration is far right and white nationalist. Stephen Miller, his advisor, is absolutely a white nationalist. That’s my biggest worry. Nicole Good shouldn’t have been murdered, and the U.S. shouldn’t threaten allies like Venezuela or Cuba. This is a crazy situation. [00:23:00]

Dominic Bowen: Thanks for sharing, Scott, and thank you for coming on the International Risk Podcast today.

Scott Ernest: Absolutely. It was a pleasure to be here.

Dominic Bowen: That was Scott Ernest, providing an insider perspective on extremism. Today’s conversation highlights that leaders must take radicalization and insider threats seriously—they’re not just social issues; they impact everyone. Today’s podcast was produced and coordinated by Alyssa Gar. I’m Dominic Bowen. Thanks for listening, and we’ll speak again soon. [00:24:00]

Elisa Garbil: Thank you for listening to this episode of the International Risk Podcast. For more episodes and articles, visit internationalriskpodcast.com. Follow us on LinkedIn, Bluesky, and Instagram for updates, and to ask your questions to our host, Dominic Bowen. See you next time.