Episode 266: The Current Serbian Protests with Saša Dobrijević
Coordinated and Produced by Elisa Garbil
The student-led protests in Serbia have been going on for months. Today we have Saša Dobrijević on the podcast to discuss:
- The government response to the protests
- The current situation in Belgrade
- What the Drivers are behind the Protest
- Government Manipulation
- Media Influence
- International Influence
- International Relations
- And much more!
Saša Dobrijević is an international journalist and reporter based in Belgrade. He is a seasoned journalist with experience in Munich in Berlin and Luxembourg, with a beat across geopolitics, social movements, and the green-energy transition. He’s covered protests up close, interviewed decision-makers, and understands how narratives harden, and how they break.
Saša is a Diplomatic Press Passport holder, an award-winning journalist, an International Journalist, and a public speaking coach. He started his career as a radio host at the state radio station, trained by experienced editors and journalists who graduated from the University of Political Sciences in Belgrade. Then he moved on to researching the TV industry. Where he found out that he is passionate about video production, interviews, TV packages, and live reporting.
His international career began in Munich, mostly reporting about geopolitical and social topics, and interviewing politicians and experts in various fields. He covered environmental and climate change topics, and innovations in green energy. Gained a unique experience, through reporting from protests in Munich, Bonn, Berlin, and Luxembourg.
Finally, Saša is the Co-Founder of Pulse Theatre, Society of free artists, and of the media portal Straight to the center.
The International Risk Podcast brings you conversations with global experts, frontline practitioners, and senior decision-makers who are shaping how we understand and respond to international risk. From geopolitical volatility and organised crime, to cybersecurity threats and hybrid warfare, each episode explores the forces transforming our world and what smart leaders must do to navigate them. Whether you’re a board member, policymaker, or risk professional, The International Risk Podcast delivers actionable insights, sharp analysis, and real-world stories that matter.
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Transcript:
Saša Dobrijević: Lately people are asking questions about: what kind of Europe, European Union, democracy, layers are giving to their citizens? And are those double standards? And what kind of help do we have from Russia? Or is it on your trade?
Elisa Garbil: Welcome back to the International Risk Podcast, where we discuss the latest world news and significant events that impact businesses and organizations worldwide.
Dominic Bowen: Hi, I’m Dominic Bowen and I’m host of the International Risk Podcast. And today tens of thousands of people are on the streets in Belgrade, in Serbia, campus square’s a filling and, what was originally a peaceful vigil has turned into mass anti-government marches. Serbia’s government is confronting a basic question of legitimacy.
Are the country’s institutions still serving its citizens? Or are they just protecting those that are in power? Now, the government’s calling the protest dangerous, but the protestors are saying that the system is rigged and that standoff is volatile. [00:01:00] It’s politically, socially, economically, quite dangerous.
And the longer it lasts, the higher the risk of miscalculation. Now, this isn’t just a a Balkan side story. This really is a story that’s important to all of Europe and the Serbian government is now offering these populous concessions that are. Potentially financially irresponsible, including higher pensions, higher public salaries. Now, these are gonna buy time for the government, but they’re not buying trust, and they put further strain on an already tight fiscal base in Serbia. We’ve seen investor confidence wobbling already, Russia’s continuing to manipulate and exploit openings that it’s seeing now if you add a traumatized public after the spring stampede and the probability of international risk escalating.
This is something that we really wanna understand. So today we’re joined by Saša Dobrijević. He’s an international journalist and a reporter that’s based in Belgrade in Serbia. He’s a seasoned journalist. He’s got experience from Munich, from Berlin, from Luxembourg, and his beat covers geopolitics, social movements. And the green energy transition. He’s covered protests up close around Europe. [00:02:00] He’s interviewed decision makers and he really understands how narratives harden and how they break, and his perspective on what’s happening in Serbia today is gonna be priceless. Sasha, welcome to the International Risk Podcast.
Saša Dobrijević: Thank you very much for having me.
Dominic Bowen: Sasha, I think, I’d really like to start by just hearing from you, how are things in, Belgrade today? How is your family? How are your friends? What are you seeing when you look out the window?
Saša Dobrijević: Well, it’s not good. I mean, when you ask what can we see, through our windows, we saw a lot during these 10 months really. Because students, Put diplomacy on the streets. When you are asking me about my family, my friends and people around me or my colleagues, it’s not good situation, really. I mean, my family is really good, but some of the, may I say, friends of my friends are really not good. They’re beaten, they, experience like insulting and more so. The situation is not good. Really. We can see a lot of, students still in [00:03:00] custody and beaten on the street, and I mean, if anyone is normal human being, they would say This is not a normal s.
Dominic Bowen: So when we strip away the, theater, the politics, the misinformation, help us understand for people that haven’t been following the situation in Serbia for the last few months, what is the real driver? What’s the driver that’s pulling people so consistently and in such large numbers onto the street?
Saša Dobrijević: Well, first of all, the fail of the canopy. in Noad, the biggest tragedy was the trigger of this protest. student did everything really, and then citizens gather around the idea of the students that they want the answers of, the responsible people for that. Corruption followed of the canopy really. And that’s how everything started. But then students start to make like blocking the universities and they are brilliant. Really. They are so smart. They start to walk from the city to other [00:04:00] cities and they are riding bikes and they are. Making people awake really, because nowadays when, government actually the main ruling party when they have like manipulation on television, and now everything is happening on the streets. Now there is no such kind of gaslighting like we have, before. So basically that happened then the violence start, and beating students, hitting them by the car, releasing responsible people who attacking students from the jail. And I mean, that’s a lot of thing, coming together at once. Then people start to make, huge protests. For example, when we are talking about that, the first big protest, March 15, I was there. I was reporting from the street from the protest. And at, day before the government announced that there is, Call about anonymous bombs in the public transportation [00:05:00] so nobody could travel from other cities to Belgrade.
I mean, it’s obvious they want to stop the protest, but. Beside that people are smart, really. they are organized and they figure out how to reach Belgrade, and it was huge. I hope that you saw the number of people, but it was huge. And overall, if I can summarize that, happening over these 10 months.
students are not giving up. that’s the simple as it is.
Dominic Bowen: Yeah. I mean, I think we’ve seen the, the size of the protest, both in Belgrade, but you know, it’s spread over 400 separate cities across Serbia and Serbia is obviously not a huge country. I mean, that’s a, that’s a huge number and, the size of the protests, is huge. I mean by many estimates, it’s, close to about 300,000 people turning up for these protests and the protesters are blaming corruption. They’re blaming government mismanagement, they’re demanding early elections. They want the removal of president. Alexander Vu, they want the removal of his SNS party.
They want transparent investigations, criminal [00:06:00] prosecution of those responsible for the original building collapse. They want media freedom. They want broader anti-corruption reforms. These are all things that most European nations would want of Serbia. and the fact that the Serbian people are asking for this is, something that we’re hearing loud and clear.
And I wonder though, Sasha, if the government does call elections, if they call early elections. How likely is it that they’d be free? How likely is it those elections would be conducted under fair conditions?
Saša Dobrijević: Not at all. It’s so simple really, because we have experience. I mean, people in Serbia have that experience.
It’s like, how they call it the Bulgarian train, voting and the other things they’re using to make elections Also like a big manipulation and European Union. I was reading the report about elections and. Actually the main report about Serbia from European Commission, and they know that we need to figure out how to, make everything in a legal way for the elections [00:07:00] and then to have elections.
Dominic Bowen: Sasha, very sadly, you, you mentioned earlier about the beating of students and the, the injuries that, that you’ve seen and that, friends of friends have experienced protestors and even independent monitors are, are citing government violence against political opponents. They’re talking about repression of the media, repression of academic freedoms and, Undeniable excessive use of force during the the current protests. What are the prospects for dialogue between the government and protestors when this is the basis of what’s occurring today? And does the current government in Serbia have any credibility left?
Saša Dobrijević: I guess no, really, because students are offering the negotiations all the time.
But when they experience such a pressure on them, I mean, the government called them terrorists and manipulation media called them terrorists as well. I mean, that was like huge gaslighting And, the president invite students now to have like really open. television conversation, like TV Dwell or something like that.
[00:08:00] But they said, no, you called us terrorists, you beat us. there are some of our, friends in custody still, so there is no negotiation in that kind of way. They lost trust completely. Really. And now they just want the elections. And when we are speaking about the protests, you said the four major cities and et cetera, but this is huge.
This is even bigger because we can see a. Thousand and thousand of protests every day is somewhere some kind of protest. we can see a lot of protest in, smaller cities. I live in, Belgrade Municipality, the city named la, and we can see a lot of protest because the government is making that fresher for the workers in the public, companies.
And They are firing the teachers. They’re firing the, professors. This is one. Kind of, insulting academic, community, insulting the regular workers. And, [00:09:00] basically it’s attack on normal Intelligence really, because, now we can hear, that they fired so many teachers and professors and now students from high schools gathered to make a protest against that.
Can you imagine how difficult and how insane situation is here now?
Dominic Bowen: I think it’s quite difficult for many of our listeners to actually fathom and understand what that is like to actually live and, and see and practice. You discuss the use of labeling protesters as terrorists. I’d love to hear from you, Sasha.
What’s been the role of state media and the pro-government tabloids? Shaping and even suppressing public understanding of the protest movement and even some of these high profile tragedies that have occurred. Can you describe the tactics that are being used by the government and these tabloids to discredit protests to discredit the opposition and, and the alternative narratives that are being created?
Saša Dobrijević: It’s like you are watching the Monty Python show. Really? Really? [00:10:00] Because that kind of gaslighting, I mean, I can feel, and everybody can feel that I can. I can see that from, the conversation with my friends, with my colleagues. That kind of narrative is only shown for the voters of this, ruling party.
They’re not, making public announcement for. All citizens of Serbia and that kind of gaslighting in those kind of media, that’s horrible. it’s becoming so funny because they are saying that, the number of protestors on the streets is. Far less than it was real. So everybody can see that now and everybody’s making laugh about that.
I mean, there are still people who are believers in those kind of gaslighting, but more and more people are awakened. students make some kind of, I don’t know, awakening in Serbia and you know, when people. Become more aware. There is no going to the back. There is no [00:11:00] going back at all. You can’t be like less aware than you are now.
And that’s scientific proof actually. So they make some kind of awakening here. And I don’t even know what to say about this media and I, I don’t know how to say that. This is not. Even like, media or journalist attic, this is not like journalist professional work. This is like very funny and very not intelligent way to make like really, really gaslighting, on the citizens of Serbia and those kind of narratives.
You don’t want to hear, trust me.
Dominic Bowen: Now speaking of gaslighting, the government has denied all accusations of violence and corruption, and in fact blamed unrest on foreign interference and opposition agitators. Now we see Russia being the main foreign actor interfering in, in Serbia.
I’d wonder, can you describe Russia’s behind the scenes support for the current government, [00:12:00] even though it’s, attracting so much negative press?
Saša Dobrijević: I think that, Russia is, taking care about their interests here, and that’s trade. I don’t think that they are supporting anything at all.
Besides that, I mean, it used to be like good relations with Russia. Serbia is, one of the countries that didn’t make any kind of sanctions to that country, to Russia. And now we can see from this meeting we had like a few days ago that, Vladimir Putin is saying all about the trade. He never said something about, the political vacuum in Serbia.
I know that this is like, they’re really cautious about everything. I mean, everybody’s a little bit cautious about everything. I observe also European Union and they are saying that. I was sending the open letters to the eu, United Nations and, European Commission Council of Europe, European Parliament, and actually [00:13:00] s Lion and mar me, and they said, they said that serbian need, like proper investigation about using force. They, are sending appeal that Serbian need to respect human rights and democracy. But that’s only those words and nothing else.
Dominic Bowen: But you say that, nothing else. But I, I think my understanding, and I’d love to hear your, input, Sasha, is that, that Russia’s involvement with Serbia really is multifaceted and it’s really complex and, it influences across different domains, political, economic, media, security and, and social spheres.
Like, it exerts political influence, though its close relationship with, a substantial amount of pro-Russian politicians. Economically, Russia retains considerable influence because of energy dependence from Serbia on Russia on the security front. Russia maintains ties through military cooperation and, intelligence, activities.
And then you’ve also got Russia’s, heavy influence through Serbia’s media and public opinion through pro-Russian media outlets. is that what you see as someone who’s living and working in [00:14:00] Serbia every day?
Saša Dobrijević: I don’t know what to say. There is some kind of. Divided citizens in that kind of opinion because there are people who are really not educated at all and they are just, go to the flow with some kind of media, manipulation and more, and they are just pro-Russian with no reason.
I mean, they are counting on the. Old relations with Russia, with Yeah. We are the brothers. We are a part of the Slavic group of the people. And that’s something that it’s not enough for real opinion. I mean, people are so on one side or the other side. I mean, there is no like middle side. There is not a middle, not a side. But then there is no middle path in that kind of way. And I don’t know, but now people are asking questions. Lately people are asking questions about: what kind of Europe, European [00:15:00] Union, democracy, layers are giving to their citizens? And are those double standards? And what kind of help do we have from Russia? Or is it on your trade? You know, everything is mixed there, so it’s hard to say. about those kind of opinions among citizens. But yes, there is some kind of change even in that terms that how people observe, the strategic and geopolitical position of Serbia in those relations. Because nowadays Serbia is playing on the both sides.
They want to go to the European Union and they want to have a great and amazing relations with Russia, China, and, and I don’t know what to say, but it’s confusing because. There’s so much pressure, but nobody’s talking about that. How European Union citizens are observing that double standards. They’re losing points.
I mean, the politicians, some of [00:16:00] them in Europe, European Union, are losing points because now it’s like. How can I describe it? Like over data diplomacy, like we need some refreshing there. Refresh diplomacy, real talk. Open cards on the table.
Dominic Bowen: Yeah, I, I think you’re totally right. And I think there is that concern across Europe that while Serbia, has made overt tunes to wanting to be part of Europe and part of the European Union and close with its European neighbors, in practice, we see closer relationships with Russia and closer relationship with China, which, at a time like where we’re today with the geopolitical tensions globally, that that is something that doesn’t necessarily fit into a, into a neat shape.
If we look more regionally within Serbia, it’s experiencing the largest anti-democratic protests in decades. And as we discussed, you know, hundreds of thousands of people protesting across major cities. I’m wondering what are the risks now of serbia’s protests escalating into broader regional instability across the Balkans, or feeding into, you know, much more complex internal political divisions that, that we’re [00:17:00] seeing across the Balkans.
Saša Dobrijević: Well, I think that this is over date as well. I mean, everybody’s so. Tired from the wars, from the violence, from the riots. And of course, students make that trigger not just in Balkans, but all of the world. Serbian students now are recognized rising voices for freedom in, some kind of way, and. Yes, they are. everybody’s talking about, yeah, this kind of situation could affect, the region and could affect the other, students in, Bosnia and Croatia and other countries, Macedonia as well. But you know what, I, I know I can feel that and I know from all my interviews and conversations with others.
Everybody is tired from going to some kind of violence and war. I think that this is time that, people are using their intelligence and they know [00:18:00] that they get over some kind of old patterns. So this can be in a way good to refresh or to awake more people to know what people and citizens. Balkans really does not want in their life, that’s war and violence.
Dominic Bowen: and that’s a really positive story. And, and I, I really hope you’re, correct, Sasha, because I mean these, internal political divisions in Serbia and the, more regional ethnic and nationalist dimensions, are complex and, you know, they’re quite painful. When we look at Serbia, when we look at Kosovo, Bosnia and, other neighboring countries, and I think people are worried that if there’s prolonged unrest there’s that risk of nationalist rhetoric and raising tensions with neighbors, and it’s already a fragile region.
What’s the dialogue that needs to occur? and if people are tired, of course being tired is not a good thing. But if people are being tired and they want to avoid conflict, how should European business leaders be supporting communities so that we can avoid, inflaming a, a regional conflict or regional [00:19:00] tensions?
Saša Dobrijević: well, I was talking. Three days ago with, Gina Romero. She’s a special Rapporteur of the United Nations for, freedom of assembly and, human rights as well. and I agree, totally agree. So she said that European Union should, be more louder, first of all, and then they should really consider, that kind of money giving.
To corruption government. And that will be like some kind of path that they can do something. I mean, they’re saying something, but some group of, eu parliament people, they made a letter to SLO on the lion and they didn’t have any kind of, uh. Response. They ask for more attention, more reaction to this situation in Serbia.
But there is no one, and that’s really suspicious because we can ask another question. What kind of interests? Are here to be so silent. And that’s why [00:20:00] I said before that, citizens of European Union should be in a way, cautious about those democratic double standards. For example, I was in Munich for about two and a half years and I was the only, can you imagine one? Serbian journalist is the only one who is reporting from every protest in Munich and Germany as well. But this is not real democracy. Then where are the journalists from Munich? Where are the journalists? Journalists for? From bigger media companies. No, it was like silent.
That’s really a big issue. if we want to go to real democracy, entire continent, not just union or not union, but entire continent, we need to. Have more dialogue and that will be the real answer, your question. We need to more conversation, more smart people, more open talk, and that’s the way.
How can we make a normal neighbor living a normal. [00:21:00] Uh, a way to develop civilization. I mean, look at the globe now. We are like going back from year to year. We are going back. Instead, we are heading, step forward or something like that. We are going step by step back, not just Serbia, but I, I think about all the world.
Dominic Bowen: And just today there was reporting about, a leaked recording that’s triggered alarm over the fate of a group of media outlets in Serbia that represent some of the last voices of dissent against the government. And there’s deepening concern about this shrinking space for dissent and definitely against President ic.
So how do you personally, Sasha, how do you experience the operating environment as a journalist, as someone who’s trying to, Communicate on behalf of and communicate with Serbians.
Saša Dobrijević: Thank you very much for that question. Really, because I quit my previous jobs at the media companies, which are not in the proper way objective. We start our own media portal here in my city. My [00:22:00] team, Tamara, Maria Popovich, and myself, and. Immediately we start to reporting as we know. So objectively, we have a lot of, can you imagine we are working without a salary, without any kind of money, just because we want to be objective. And you know what?
My experience that we had like three cyber attacks because they want. To make a pressure on one local media, portal. So can you imagine city by city, also where apply for, legal application for money from our, government, as a media and they had like, ending date to make that decision to give the money to, local medias.
And that date is long ago, finished. And they never said the word about that, and they never give money to anyone. So. Where is the money? Nobody knows [00:23:00] when you want to ask about some kind of public information. There is no answer when you want to go and to get normal statements or to film some kind of, uh, normal interviews.
There is no such a thing. Everything is like closed circle and that’s the biggest issue. Yeah, you mentioned those. medias the main media, the bigger ones in Belgrade, so it is difficult and they want to make a pressure on that kind of media as well. As I said before, and it’s weird, but it’s very interesting in a philosophical, psychological, and social way to observe everything because diplomacy is on the street now really, and you can’t deny when you see on the street students, and they are talking with old people, with middle-aged people, with high school students, with everybody.
And these media gaslighting. Now it can be done like [00:24:00] it used to be because as I said, the major events are on the streets now.
Dominic Bowen: And I’ll take the opportunity, Sasha, to remind our listeners to go to the International Risk Podcasts website and subscribe to our newsletter to get our latest news and analysis in your inbox every second week.
And Sasha, the continued unrest, the government crackdowns the erosion Economic confidence, the erosion and removal of some public services, you know, the risk of sparking even more widespread civic unrest. I’m wondering about the long-term consequences and, and what you see the impact and the risks are.
If young people, those that are driving a lot of these protests, if they start to lose faith in democratic institutions in Serbia, what do you see as the impact on society?
Saša Dobrijević: Wow. This is a, very difficult question because projecting some kind of future is not possible in this moment because we have everything, you know, like as I said, like Monty Python show really, it’s like sat way to say that you are intelligent and [00:25:00] that how can you see something, you know what I mean?
So. Well, yes. the impact on the young people is they will remember this and they, are coming from the really decent, uh, families, the very polite families they have like that domestic culture feeling in our society. So they will remember this and they are not allowing.
That this government continue to make these corruptive things and to make this gaslighting, with the media and other things. as we can see all these trying. From the ruling party to gaslight with media, which is like a bad try to make, some kind of makeup on a dirty face, something like that.
I mean, really there is no going back and young people Overall, they’re so well organized. They went to Brussels, they went to [00:26:00] Geneva, buy bikes, buy, running. they are so good organized here. when we are waiting that, um, walking students from other cities here in my, city, it was like celebration of some kind of people who liberate the country. It was like, really weird feeling. And for the first few months you can see manly men are crying, older people are crying. There was something like emotional release from everything we had in the past.
I mean, Serbian people are very clever. They have experience in everything in wars, in sanctions, in the hard life, in corruptions and everything more. But this is too much. This is that drop in a glass. Nobody wants to see that there are no responsible people from that fell of the canopy in Noad. So somebody need to be responsible.
Yes, they [00:27:00] arrest, the minister of infrastructure and more people, but there are no proofs. There are no proofs and there is no transparency. That kind of way. And yes, students just want to have that responsibility. I think that this unique, but very important lessons, a lesson for students and citizens as well.
So in that kind of direction, we will go in the future.
Dominic Bowen: Thanks for explaining that Sasha, you are an international journalist. You’ve reported from around the world. When you look globally today, what are the international risks that concern you the most?
Saša Dobrijević: Well, that kind of instability and not listening to the people.
I mean, as you know, we had in Europe, like farmers on the street, people on the streets all the way because of the pandemic, because of the lockdowns, because of the, economic big decisions and, more governments [00:28:00] need to be careful of what they are doing. They can’t push people so much because the biggest force. In the world is really United People.
I was at in, in Luxembourg, one year ago, and there is a, from, people from Africa. They were protesting because of the dictatorship in their country and police came there. Police have that, you know, that attitude. We can push you away from here.
But then when they saw, because I have American Press, I am the member of reporters of, without Borders. I’m the member of, international Federation of Journalists. I have diplomatic. Press passport. So when they saw my American press, they were like, oh my God, the press is here. You know, so the journalist work is really important.
and yeah, the diplomacy in a way need to be like we are listening. citizens, we are listening young voices because we are living this world to them, and if we make them [00:29:00] angry, oh my God, the karma will bring that back. So we need to be cautious. We as a people, as a citizens, we need to talk more to overcome the differences.
I mean, and overall, new diplomacy need to be like more open talk young people with diplomats, diplomats with citizens, and the full circle.
Dominic Bowen: I think that sounds like great advice, Sasha, and certainly steer us in the right direction. Thanks for explaining that, and thank you very much for coming on the International Risk Podcast today.
Saša Dobrijević: Thank you very much for having
Dominic Bowen: me. Well, that was a great conversation with Saša Dobrijević. He’s a international journalist and a reporter based in Belgrade, in Serbia. I really appreciated hearing his thoughts about what’s going on in Serbia, what he’s seeing, what he’s experiencing. And what people on the ground in Belgrade are actually saying, please go right now to the International Risk Podcast and remember to subscribe to our mailing list to get our news in your inbox every second week.
Today’s podcast was produced and coordinated by [00:30:00] Elisa Garbil. I’m Dominic Bowen, the host. Thanks very much for listening. We’ll speak again in the next few days.
Elisa Garbil: Thank you for listening to this episode of the International Risk Podcast. For more episodes and articles, visit the international risk podcast.com. Follow us on LinkedIn, blue Sky, and Instagram for the latest updates, and to ask your questions to our host, Dominic Bowen. See you next time.
